I suck with Pythium ... please help!

[Thufir]

archaeolept said:
not arch-theurgs, unless you have some special need for their communioned random - say a 1N arch-theurg, communioned, can cast relief x 5

Doh! That makes much more sense. All though it probably indicates I've been under recruiting theurgs, and over recruiting arch theurgs. I like the idea of using a 1N arch theurg, communioned, to get access to relief tho.

[Huzurdaddi]

I've found it very easy to use Principe cost effectively - as such I'm probably over using them.

I have the same problem. They are so good that it's hard to stop using them. They really are excellent troops.

hat about Emerald Guards?

Well their stats are fantastic. But their strat move of 1 worries me. As such I never build them. Too bad, since they are so excellent.

Currently I'm fighting Abysia, and I've found it particularly difficult to kill devils.

Indeed that is why I made this post originally. While I was killing the devils at a great rate in the game ( mostly due to errors on the other player's side ) I knew that once he got his act together I was cooked. There really was little I could do to stop them.

All I can say is that nifel flames and shimmering fields are your friends. Those two spells kick *** a little, although they are expensive.

Also falling frost does hurt the devils and that worked somewhat ok. So quickness, communion master, with at least 8 or even better 16 communicants, and falling frost x3 hurts the devils.

But devils are *hard* to kill. They are one amazing troop. And they are basically free. I find that the combination of great SC's and devils make blood empires really hard to combat if they get rolling.

quickness, communion master, banish demon X3

I'll be honest here. I've never tried that. But I have to ask: have you? I mean devils have an MR of 17 which is what gives Pythium fits since a lot of Pythium's battle magic has an MR check. I can see it working, but if that works I think that mass soul slay would work just as well. Perhaps I'm wrong. I would love to hear how you got it working.

not arch-theurgs, unless you have some special need for their communioned random - say a 1N arch-theurg, communioned, can cast relief x 5

That random is golden for Pythium it's true. There are so many possibilities that really can make battles easier. It's too bad that Pythium's magic is so painfully locked into 3 paths. But if they had magic like arco with the very cheap communicant it would be too powerful ( but oh so fun to play ).

[archaeolept]

w/ spell foci and normal positive magic MR subtraction, the devils will have an effective MR of 12. that's not so hot, and they'll be taking serious losses from say 5 quickened theurgs, w/ one theurg casting buffs.

the real advantage of banish demon is that it costs no fatigue, and so the theurg/communicant machine will Last longer. and principe hold up pretty well.

as well, the buffed communicants will do a very good job soaking up attacks from the devils: luck and twist of fate will mean that they will survive on average 5 attacks; astral shield depends upon the level of the caster (5) and i think the spell foci might well still add in, which would lead to a number of turns of paralysis on top of this...

after scripting finishes they may well cast enslave mind or soul slay, which will have somewhat lower penetration but still be fairly effective.

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh and I am playing Pythium in my most recent game ( Boron's game on mosehansen ).

I'm going to do my usual expansion with principes who are etherial. It hurts your research since you have to send out 3-5 casters with your army but it seems to make a decent sized difference.

After that I can switch to mind-burn/Smite based armies for a few turns and then to soul slay armies. That should Last until turn 25-30. Assuming I live that long. But indeps are set somewhat high so I hope that most people will be happy killing them for a while.

The question is what to do after that. I guess you have to rush to AQ ( which probably means getting them before this point ). I really don't know what to do.

[Thufir]

Huzurdaddi said:

I'm going to do my usual expansion with principes who are etherial. It hurts your research since you have to send out 3-5 casters with your army but it seems to make a decent sized difference.

How do you do that? Are you saying 3-5 theurgs, casting body ethereal, placed in and around a principe squad, will make it mostly ethereal?

That does sounds like a neat idea for early game - I'll have to try that next time I play Pythium.

[KroolDeath]

I also have a question about this Body Ethereal thing on the Principe's, and I'm probably going to go off topic a second.

I have seen this mentioned before, perhaps even in this thread, and I am confused about casting Body Ethereal on troops as I would assume the caster would cast it on himself.

What the heck am I missing here? And I just started playing Pythium in one of the newb games so this is of great interest to me.

Krool

[Yossar]

Body ethereal has range one so he can cast it on any adjacent units. If he's next to a large pretender, he'll always cast it on him first. Not sure about other troops.

[Huzurdaddi]

How do you do that? Are you saying 3-5 theurgs, casting body ethereal, placed in and around a principe squad, will make it mostly ethereal?

Yep. Place your principes in a block and sprinkle 3-5 thurges/theurg acos in the block and script x3 body etherial, and set the principies on hold and attack and when they start moving most of them will be etherial.

Or place 10 principes with each thrurg/theurg aco and place the theurg in the middle of the 10 man block and script x3 body etherial and boom you have lots of small blocks of etherial troops.

They are quite good at smashing indeps. Not as good as an SC, but darn good. After a good number of indeps you will have some seriously experienced principes, defence 17 here I come.

[archaeolept]

it is a nice trick. the problem, of course, is the cost of the theurgs, and the lost research this involves.

as well, as there isn't a "hold and fire" command, you can't script the principes to lead w/ a couple javelin tosses.

I'm not sure which is better. Probably, against very high level indeps, I'd go w/ the ethereal when backed by a bit of artillery. Against normal indeps, the principes generally do just fine on their own.

[Arralen]

If you set them to "hold and attack", they'll fire at everything that comes in range. Which is not that great, sadly. So if placed forward enough, you might one lucky shot in before melee begins. If you use big enough stacks, those units in the rear actually fire at the nearby enemy while the front line is fighting.