newest beta patch?

[Phoenix-D]

"2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type."

Um, this is just franky ridiclous. If you want the AS to only affect ships in SE4..only let it target ships. There is no reason to cripple modding like that.

Phoenix-D

[Q]

Well I am glad that I am not completely alone with my opinion!
My objection to the changes MM makes since the Last patch is a general one:
MM starts to remove things from SE which in my opinion is absurd:
In patch 1.78 he removed the ability of "damage engines only, skips shields", now he plans to remove the ability of the AS to work against ships/bases with destroyed master computer and the possibility to target units (something I never used).
I understand people who think that this might be more realistic or balanced, however don't you understand that this also reduces the complexity and variety of the game?
I strongly ask all people with some influence on MM: ask him to make such changes only as an option or in a way that can be modded back and not in an irreversible way.

Thank you for your understanding.

[ October 12, 2002, 09:08: Message edited by: Q ]

[dumbluck]

I agree with Q. It is good that he is adressing issues, but bad that he is addressing them by reducing the moddable features....

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Q:
Well I am glad that I am not completely alone with my opinion!
My objection to the changes MM makes since the Last patch is a general one:
MM starts to remove things from SE which in my opinion is absurd

I agree

don't you understand that this also reduces the complexity and variety of the game?
.

I noticed this, and there appears to be no end to what people seem to need to make the game balanced to perfection. Somethings up here. And IMO people aren't being completely honest with me on this subject ...

So, I am in the middle of my first PBW game. There are psychic races and religious races around me. But combat hasn't broken out yet.

WHAT IS GOING ON IN OTHER PBW GAMES

ahem sorry for shouting there guys cough cough hurt myself

Are some people dominating the game with their special racial choices? Are talisman mounted null space and polaron beams unstoppable. Some people say no, some people have to endlessly mod the rules in the need for perfect balance, and the debate rages on an on in this forum. Always friendly, but endless in frequency. All we get are hints, someone wants to alter the phased shield arrival, someone wants a Desecrater-class weapon to take out the talisman. The AS cascade has to be stopped.

People aren't being square with me on why these are needed. Change the names and post anonomusly if you feel like it.

In my PBW game, I'm in second to Last place. I have very few planets, only my home system rock planets and maybe 5 or 6 breathables elsewhere. Everyone else has traded colonization techs, so they're everywhere. If I lose, it will be my fault, I'll try to do better next time.

[Soapbox mode][SB]
If you get spanked by a newbie munckin, well, maybe new tactics on your part are what's needed. Not a hardcode change
[/SB][/Soapbox mode]

[ October 12, 2002, 18:31: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Arkcon:
People aren't being square with me on why these are needed. Change the names and post anonomusly if you feel like it.

Either I don't quite get what you really want to say or are you really thinking its a conspiracy against you?

Regarding OA:
I think it’s a good change. There is really no sense in your ship armor growing before it is even in combat. You don’t have a cancer ship with unlimited growth.

Regarding the Intel project:
When you intercepted a message, the game would only display the first few lines as you couldn’t scroll the message like you can when sending normal Messages.

Regarding the AS:
I can see Q’s point. However IMHO, reduced to the question if tuning down the AS is a good thing, it is. Even the PPB has a “counter”, phased shields. It remains a strong weapon but it won’t skip shields. Against the AS there is no defense as even the MC cannot protect you. Combine this with a Talisman and no one can stop you. BTW, we are discussing tuning the Talisman, too (know I have opened up a can of worms, don’t I? ). The best idea in this regard IMHO is at the moment making the Talisman hit only every X turns, rendering it useless the other y turns until “recharged”. We’ll see what MM thinks of this.

[Phoenix-D]

"Combine this with a Talisman and no one can stop you."

That's 3000 racial points and a LOT of research. Could very well use the overwhelming numbers strategy.

And I still see no reason to remove the ability for the AS to hit things other than ships no matter what you tell it to do.

Phoenix-D

[Nodachi]

I agree that the change to the AS makes sense, I've been saying that all along. My gripe is that the counter to the AS is too powerful and doesn't make sense. A ship that has had it's MC (or even it's bridge) should not be capable of combat and this should be changed too. That's all I've been saying.

Fixing the talisman? I didn't know it was broke. We're talking about a racial trait that gets no weapons and only combat component is extremely expensive to research. Please, at least leave this change moddable.

[Phoenix-D]

2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type2.

THIS is what annoys me, in case people think I'm defending the current setup. I LIKE the other change, though it should get a settings.txt entry so it can be changed back if wanted.

Phoenix-D

[Grandpa Kim]

Originally posted by Arkcon

WHAT IS GOING ON IN OTHER PBW GAMES

Well, in my games, I'm finding that the specialized techs you choose have nothing to do with victory. The skill of the player is paramount as well as his tenacity. Players who will not give up, often work marvels.

I have played in less than 10 games on PBW and have already been involved in a victory over a very powerful religious race, have had a huge empire and got creamed by a superior player, pulled myself up by my bootstraps to win another and am in one with a truly amazing player who's weakness I have yet to find-- and if I don't find it, I'm toast!

The techs involved are irrelevant, the skills of the players are everything. In fact, I find it hard to remember which special techs (if any) the other players have. It just doesn't seem to matter that much. Sure, I will customize my ship designs to counter those techs, but that is "if" and "when" and only if needed.

If you think you are losing to the talisman and the AS, you are actually losing to a superior player.

Kim

[Taera]

Re: AS and Talisman.

I've thought about this lately and i think i know what is needed. The problem is that AS and Talisman are 100% weapons. AS has a base of almost 100% convert chance, and when mounted it is 100% at any range. Talisman is also 100% component. It eliminates the chances of players to miss.

AS must be either disallowed to be used with mounts or have the chance decreased that Large mount would not take them to about 100%, only Massive would. This way it would not be 100% sure convert. Also a smart counter to this weapon is simply destroying it, but the large tonnage means large damage resistance, which is doubled when mounted. Again, disallowing mounts to be applied on AS seems to be the answer for me.

Talisman should be given something like +200% or so bonus so it would be *almost* sure yet with the same 1% or more to miss.