How do you fight the Niefel giants?

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

The problem with Doom Chicken is that I can't afford my Dai Oni... I'm a dirt poor Yomi...

Oh, Drain Life isn't resistable? Than script it amongst all the Raise Skeletons. It's not about the damage as much as the fatigue relief. Though I'll have to check out the damage and see whether its at all economical.

[Meglobob]

Folket said:
Drain life is not resistable. But not fast nor easy enough to mass.

If you do it via standard of the damned, combined with boots of quickness, you get 2 drain lifes per combat round for only 10 fatigue.

Thats a real killer for both giants and SC's or in indeed anything else that is big, has lots of hps.

[Valandil]

Wait... raise dead is fatigue 40? I thought it was 20!
Much is explained....

[Reverend Zombie]

Valandil said:
Wait... raise dead is fatigue 40? I thought it was 20!
Much is explained....

I'm not sure that is correct. The costs were raised in CB, check if you are playing with a mod.

Raise Dead costs less fatigue that Raise Sekeletons, at any rate. 40 sounds about right for Raise Skeletons, not Raise Dead.

[Lyzra]

I play usually C'tis of various ages and I admit these giants can be slightly stressful to face on early game.

My advice is very limited, it ties to the side that they do rely on cold. If not directly they cannot make sizeable lasting armies if you can spread hot dominion outwards. The supply of giants will be so penalized they succumb to diseases and starving.

Thus, my strategy is often based on just decent point defence supported with additional forces and simply wear them down, by spreading hot dominion against them. Considering they do not have great defense values or immensly good shields, missile troops probably would be good to use against them aswell. With C'tis that is not something to even bother.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

From the game itself.
Fatigues
Animate Skeleton (1): -30
Animate Dead (1): -20
Raise Skeletons (5): -40
Raise Dead (10): -40

Javelins? Nah. With a protection of 14 and no access to Armor of Achilles... If they've got an earth bless you're out of luck. For missiles, defense doesn't matter. Just the shield's parry and fatigue.

If you've got a race that combines hot and death dominions, its rather easy to starve them out- just be aware of the catches. 4 food apiece. One shaman forged bag of endless wine can support 12. But you'll be able to identify that problem after they steamroll any outer 1 point PD.

If you're going to war with them, it may pay to raise taxes in _your_ nearby provinces, so as to raise unrest and prevent them from gaining funds there or being effective patrollers.

As Ctis, I had some effectiveness against Abysia with Black Servant, Summon Shadesx2, Rod of the Leper King- though I didn't go far enough. I wasted gems on Wights and Bane Venom Charms, rather than going in wholly with one strategy. It may be worth trying against Neifelheim. Their province defense has poor attack and protection even for 20+ points (pg 114) and is pretty skimpy in quantity. Some support can ruin this tactic, but its a pretty expensive option for Jotunheim.

[Epaminondas]

Originally Posted by Huzurdaddi

IIRC, Ulm dual weilding troops easily win against Niefel Giants with equal Gold cost. Although they will cost more resources.

Basicailly you need cold resistant high damage troops. Sadly those are not in abundance.

Finally, WRT Fomorian giants, Giants without cold auras are not nearly as frightening. You can probably kill them with simple barbarians (which can also work, simetimes, with Niefels). The cloud trapeze is a very nice though. Air > Water.

One more time though: skelly spam > Giants.

I agree. Fomorian giants are not in the same galaxy in terms of battle effectiveness as their Niefelheim counterparts. The cold aura changes the equation dramatically.

[Nikelaos]

Originally Posted by Kuritza

I'm confused.
With their stacking chill aura, they make any number of opposing troops useless in a matter of 1-2 rounds, so anything not immune to cold cannot even scratch them. In my test game 15 niefel giants killed 35 helhirdlings and 80 van infantry with no losses.
Somebody has managed to defeat Niefelheim? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

hellhirdlings and van infantry aren't the way to go.

send in some valkyries and a commander(there are a few elidgable choices) with a fire bless, split you're valkyries into several squads(maybe two or 3), script for each squad to attack at a different time so as to give the giants some time to clear some space adjacent to them so the next squad can hit them strraight away instead of waiting behind their buddies in the giants cold aura getting over fatigued.

the fire bless is what will give you're valkiries what they need to pack the punch to take the giants down and you should have you're commander casting buffs on the squads holding with him before they go out to kill giants, or just have you're commander casting evocation spells .

[Nikelaos]

Originally Posted by Nikelaos

hellhirdlings and van infantry aren't the way to go.

send in some valkyries and a commander(there are a few elidgable choices) with a fire bless, split you're valkyries into several squads(maybe two or 3), script for each squad to attack at a different time so as to give the giants some time to clear some space adjacent to them so the next squad can hit them strraight away instead of waiting behind their buddies in the giants cold aura getting over fatigued.

the fire bless is what will give you're valkiries what they need to pack the punch to take the giants down and you should have you're commander casting buffs on the squads holding with him before they go out to kill giants, or just have you're commander casting evocation spells .

usually though you will want to just raid his undefended provinces with valkiries, they can fly and have glamour making them the perfect raiders, they are also pretty good fighters so can be used if you need to attack via the above strategy.


Edit: oops clicked quote instead of edit.

[MaxWilson]

Concur that helhirdings isn't the way to go against Neifel, even if they're blessed, except maybe unless you have an F9 bless. The cold aura is the killer, so go for Iron Bane (Niefel Giants drop to Prot 5) + skelly spam augmented by serf warriors (set to Guard Commander). Use Destruction if you can't get Iron Bane. Other options, depending upon your gem income and/or research, are Drain Life via the Standard, Ghosts or other summoned creatures with a Fear aura, Rods of the Phoenix (I think--is that an F2 item? if so, Svartalfs can forge them w/ Skull of Fire), Longdead Horsemen + Clockwork horrors (plus Iron Bane of course), and thugged-out Hangadrottir w/ traded-for rings of Frost. I haven't tried all of these, because so far in my experience Iron Bane + cheap troops + skelly spam has been sufficient.

-Max