Sitting on the fence

[llamabeast]

Isn't Eyes of God unavoidably dispelled by Fate of Oedipus, no matter how many gems were put in?

I like the idea of paying the GM for better quality data. If only there were a way to automate it... but I don't think it's possible, since the program would somehow have to know how much gold was paid to the GM, and it can't do that without opening the game and reading the messages (which would be very smart indeed).

[Gandalf Parker]

llamabeast said:
Isn't Eyes of God unavoidably dispelled by Fate of Oedipus, no matter how many gems were put in?

I like the idea of paying the GM for better quality data. If only there were a way to automate it... but I don't think it's possible, since the program would somehow have to know how much gold was paid to the GM, and it can't do that without opening the game and reading the messages (which would be very smart indeed).

messages can be read from the game logs

[Fate]

Gandalf, how much information is in the logs? And aren't .2h files not encrypted? Do you think this means someone could write an external AI that could submit its turns with .2h files?

It is a wild idea, but I might even try it if it is true.

[Gandalf Parker]

There is a ton of info in the logs. Who attacks who, what spells are cast, the AI's thinking, sneakings, etc. But its a file that only the host can see.

Its not the same as the .2h files. Unless you know how to turn on debugging and redirect it to the file then you will probably never see a game log even if you are hosting a game.

Its not encrypted. Its a really REALLY big ascii text file. But it could be parsed to gather info. I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread about all of the things that the host can find out. Much of that is from the log files.

Ive also mentioned in another thread parsing out province info and creating an ever-changing world-map like we had in our schoolbooks where each of the owned provinces would be colored for the nation that owned it.

added note: oh yeah, and people already can read .2h files so Im guessing that some future tricks might be possible using .2h files. I would love to see an external program for doing a "human player" as an AI

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

When you say big... Big for a text file, or big for downloading? What size is it, and would it be possible for one of you to upload a log from a finished game? I'd like to take a peek.

[Gandalf Parker]

From a finished game? No way!
Even at its lowest setting its too big to keep more than a turn or two before rotating the log. If you want to see one of those then I will zip one up and move it for you.
http://www.dom3minions.com/games/MegaAI_game.zip
Not a very standard game (its one player and 75 AI's)

Thats with a -d switch. Putting it up to -ddddddd gives you a HUGE file even with just one turn depending on how many players and how many provinces.

[Fate]

Okay, I have been looking at the log file It contains TONS of information on things like how the graphics engine is working. There a couple things I would like to know:

1) How are .2h files read? They aren't text files.

2) The game on -ddddddddd gives a lot of good information on nearly every sword swing in battle, and the original positions, but it doesn't give any territory information. I mean things like events, treasury, gems, items, commanders and units and their attributes, recruitment, sites, temples, labs, and forts, scoregraphs, and scouting reports.

The first is just my ignorance, but the second means no external AIs. I would politely ask the devs for a -info or -i command that gave a dump of a player's overall knowledge. It would be fine if it was just another text file. It doesn't need to include battles, b/c the log file has that already.

Thank you,
Fate

[Gandalf Parker]

1) The .2h is a binary file. It gets read by a program, and each character is important. But the people who worked on the God Viewer would be the ones to ask.

2) Im probably being misleading by calling it a game log. Its actually a debugging log. Turning on debugging to get a dump of the games activity is something that programmers add. Its meant more for Johan to see what is going on and what might be a problem. It wasnt really meant as something for us but I have gradually gained more info being put to the log and other output files.

There is also the scores.html which the game can be asked to dump each time it hosts. It looks like this...
http://www.dom3minions.com/games/Massive/scores.html

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

One more idea, this one relatively simple to implement and focused towards multiplayer.. I call it Vegas rules. As in, "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas".
I'd go with Orwellian titles like Ministry of Truth.

The basic principle is that there are no rules. Lying and treachery are encouraged- not required - and backstabbing within this game doesn't get held against you in a different game. Though it can certainly lead to consequences within the game.

In more detail:
A. Joining is semi-anonymous. In PBEM, an independent host (llamabeast) might handle this. In a network game, a few simple rules must be followed for joining.
A1). You cannot make a post claiming a faction. The faction goes to the first player uploading to the slot.
A2). You must respect slots where someone else has uploaded a pretender.
A3). You must make a post within 24 hours stating that you have joined the game and uploaded a pretender. You needn't mention the faction, though you may if you wish. You can make this post whenever within the 24 hours. Ideally, it will obscure which nation you selected.

B). Game Play
B1). Vegas rules aren't rules _during_ the game.
B2). Treachery and lies are encouraged, but not necessary. Truth can be a weapon too.
B3). Any backstabbing will be forgiven once the game ends, and shall not affect other games. What happens in Vegas stays in vegas.
B4). Juicy after action reports are encouraged- just be sure to mention that its vegas-style before detailing all your treachery.
B5). Both secret and public alliances are allowed. You can punish betrayal, but you should keep in mind when its to both side's advantage to call off a feud.

[llamabeast]

I had a similar idea for a game LP - I was going to call it a 'Machiavellian' game.

One problem - how can you do public diplomacy, battle reports on the thread and so on without giving away your identity?