Seeking map or need advice on making it - Page 4

diamondspider · #31 January 31st, 2004, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Targa:
Wow, nice map! Is there any way you can send me the pic without the province borders on it so I can try to rip the mountain grafix out?

Yup, I can, need an email addy, or you can get it from the WotC site which might be a few seconds faster

I'm a big fan of WotC even though I don't like D&D much (at least not for the Last 10 years).

Hopefully no one will mind this cross-link:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ma...0_dpi_fd9h.jpg

[ January 31, 2004, 20:14: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

diamondspider · #32 February 1st, 2004, 02:13 AM

OK, map is done but I am having two final problems:

1) Can't find a list of site numbers. Sunray has a great list posted of the sites available but I need the associated numbers!

2) #start is a nice command, but it seems that the starting postions aren't random if it is used. I need confirmation on Gandalf's statement that if I use #nostart 37 times that it will cause a problem. If there is no way to randomize between 2 starting locations it will sink this map idea!?

diamondspider · #33 February 1st, 2004, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
.... But even if it does look like it offers you a balanced game you might want to lock in the starting provinces.

You ended-up being exactly correct about this. In a map this small it was too hard to go for more than 1 starting province each otherwise the balance got wacked.

Good call.

Targa · #34 February 1st, 2004, 05:54 PM

Update on the slow progress on the new map. The borders aren't carved in stone yet, I was just getting a feel for it. May make the provinces smaller in order to fit a large number of them on the map. Decided to go with a different style of borders rather than being heavy-handed with them.

http://www.techno-mage.com/~targa/webmap.jpg

BTW, this is a horizontal wrap-around map. Currently, I think I have something like 56 layers in Photoshop.

[ February 01, 2004, 15:56: Message edited by: Targa ]

diamondspider · #35 February 1st, 2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Targa:
Update on the slow progress on the new map. The borders aren't carved in stone yet, I was just getting a feel for it. May make the provinces smaller in order to fit a large number of them on the map. Decided to go with a different style of borders rather than being heavy-handed with them.

http://www.techno-mage.com/~targa/webmap.jpg

BTW, this is a horizontal wrap-around map.

Best looking map I've every seen pratically. Very realistic on the "natural" feel.

I found that making the provinces bigger worked fine as they are about 2x bigger than "standard" on my map, but it plays great (I actually prefer a more spacious feel).

I don't personally like wrap-around, but obviously that is nothing more than preference. In some ways it is more fair, but it seems unrealistic (be a pretty small planet to be able to walk across it in a year or two

) and it is nice to have edges as defensive strategies become more viable.

I love the idea of sea races to be able to make it up into the fresh water. Were you planning on supporting that?

[ February 01, 2004, 16:00: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Gandalf Parker · #36 February 1st, 2004, 06:38 PM

That Wizards link was great. Walking thru their archives was interesting also.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20040101a

If we can get some more map images to get cut-n-paste icons from it would help. And Im still holding out for finding some old RPG game with a random map generator in almost the same style.

diamondspider · #37 February 1st, 2004, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
That Wizards link was great. Walking thru their archives was interesting also.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20040101a

If we can get some more map images to get cut-n-paste icons from it would help. And Im still holding out for finding some old RPG game with a random map generator in almost the same style.

Yeah, and the Campaign Cartographer site has LOTS more. The only problem is that there might be issues with using the Cartographer maps is that they reserve copyright on the individual images. Doubt they'd care though.

My only problem with a random map generator is, well obviously, that it is random.

I've designed about 60 maps for my campaigns over the years, and they are a lot of work to make look realistic. I'd hate to think that a program could ever come close

PhilD · #38 February 1st, 2004, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diamondspider:

My only problem with a random map generator is, well obviously, that it is random.

I've designed about 60 maps for my campaigns over the years, and they are a lot of work to make look realistic. I'd hate to think that a program could ever come close

No questions here, the typical random generator does a very simple job (there are people out there who do a reasonably good job of writing programs that create "realistic" planets, but a night's quick search didn't reveal any that made them available for free on top of that). But what a random generator can do, is provide you with an endless list of possible maps. Hand-made maps can look great, but they're a lot of work, and require dedicated people with some talent.

I believe there's room for both. Plus, if we managed to make the random generators more user-friendly, it might become a help to the "hand" map designers.

diamondspider · #39 February 1st, 2004, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:

quote:
Originally posted by diamondspider:

My only problem with a random map generator is, well obviously, that it is random.

I've designed about 60 maps for my campaigns over the years, and they are a lot of work to make look realistic. I'd hate to think that a program could ever come close

No questions here, the typical random generator does a very simple job (there are people out there who do a reasonably good job of writing programs that create "realistic" planets, but a night's quick search didn't reveal any that made them available for free on top of that). But what a random generator can do, is provide you with an endless list of possible maps. Hand-made maps can look great, but they're a lot of work, and require dedicated people with some talent.

I believe there's room for both. Plus, if we managed to make the random generators more user-friendly, it might become a help to the "hand" map designers.

Yup... Just personal preference. I've always been a sucker for eye-candy and I'd much prefer to play a map that looked great to one that didn't; even if the one that didn't was tactically superior for the most part.

However, I totally agree that since everyone isn't that way, there is room for both

For those who can't draw, or don't have time to do full maps, yet want to make them, another solution is to keep an archive of 10-20 maps that don't have lines marking them yet and to use one tga to make many Dom2 maps.

For example, the one Targa is working on, if he'd keep one without marks on it, could be used to create several cool different feels e.g. wraparound, no sea, lots of sea, big provinces, small provinces, etc. etc.. Same goes for that one that was by a D&D fan that I used.

[ February 01, 2004, 17:21: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Targa · #40 February 1st, 2004, 07:58 PM

To reply w/o quoting (too lazy):

Thanks for the comment on how good it's looking!

Actually, I was thinking of making several Versions, since I'm putting so much time and effort into it. I can make one where sea-races can "swim upriver" (ie: all water provinces border each other), I can make one non-wraparound, another wraparound, etc... I decided on the wraparound because being on or near an edge gives a player an unfair advantage over those who start somewhere in the middle. Though even with a non-wrap Version I'll likely be using the #nostart option.

As for random map generators...that's what created the base map that I'm using.

Yes, I'm also trying to collect cut-and-paste map icons. My goal is to eventually be able to provide the community with:

1) A wide variety of pastable map icons.
2) A "coastline" random map generator. (well, not myself, but Phil and Gandalf).
3) A tutorial + Photoshop tutorial explaining the whole process from start to finish.

What I did was to run DomMap until I saw a landmass/watermass shape I liked, then saved the random seed number from it. Changed the command-line switches to slightly alter the appearance until I got what I wanted. Used Photoshop to delete all the color information, province borders, and capitol dots (just saving the outlines of land/water). I have 1600x1200 "beige cloth" and "blue cloth" files that I use for the backgrounds. Working with layers in Photoshop makes it relatively easy.

Oh, and as far as province size goes...I would like to keep them small enough to make a map suitable for a large number of players, but may also make a Version with larger provinces for fewer players. If anyone has any requests (as far as how many players) I'd be happy to add them to my to-do list. Are alot of people still playing Aran map? Need more 2-4 player maps? Smaller maps would, of course, be faster to make. Hmm...that's an idea...

[ February 01, 2004, 18:40: Message edited by: Targa ]