Vampire Queen mod

[Endoperez]

What makes vampires ethereal in the first place?

If it is a cloak (someone mentioned something about vampires and cloaks, thanks for him!), giving the Queen body armor would take the etherealness away. Make any weapon take away her life-draining attack, and take away one of her miscellanous item slots. She can't drain the blood if she whacks her enemies down with a sword, and surely some of those abilities come from magical amulets...

[Yossar]

She's ethereal because vampires are generally considered to be all but immune to most conventional weapons.

[Taqwus]

That, however, has the powerful side-effect of making her just about (if not completely?) immune to Wind Ride, which would otherwise be a convenient way for dealing with the immortality.

[Pirateiam]

The great thing about Dominions is that species and nations have themes. Therefore it should follow the undead theme -very susceptible to Fire damage. Also another thought - if this is possible - Make all vampire like units receive double damage versus lances (stake through the heart). Sure woulld make tactical battles more interesting. Those SC VQs would need some shield infantry support and it follows the vampire theme.

Those that do not think the VQ is overpowered either have never faced a human controlled tweaked VQ or they always play with one themselves.

[ April 19, 2004, 22:33: Message edited by: Pirateiam ]

[Chris Byler]

The problem with VQ is that she can wear a variety of protective items and cast protective spells, making her very hard to damage; and then if she is damaged (probably for a small amount) she gets it back the next round from life drain.

If she has astral, even very high astral, she can be stopped by magic duel (backed by Banner of the Northern Star, Power of the Spheres, and potentially communion). If she brings her own banner carrier and/or communion slaves, kill them first.

If she doesn't have astral, even 20 MR won't stop a gang of mages spamming Soul Slay forever. You could do suicide runs with Inner Sun (How much damage does it do? Is there an MR save? Is it elemental?)

Is the VQ inanimate, and if so, is she affected by Shatter? (100 PREC, no MR save, 35+ armor negating damage... ouch!) Gifts from Heaven is hard to cast (Evo 5, Earth 3 Astral 1), but does 150 non-elemental damage with no MR save - if it hits. And of course, if she is given fire susceptibility, it'll be harder to avoid Holy Pyre, Just Mans Cross, Flambeau and Angelic Host. Dust to Dust and Wither Bones are effective if they hit, but require Death magic.

You can horror mark her and call horrors, but I don't know how effective that would be against a really super supercombatant. AFAIK you can't call Doom Horrors or the King of the World. (Call Doom Horror would make a cool Blood 9 spell...) Although maybe if you have enough people use Hell Power, you'll get the KotW to show up on his own.

[Zapmeister]

Make all vampire like units receive double damage versus lances (stake through the heart).

It's a long time since I read "Dracula", but IIRC you would need more than double damage to emulate the wooden stake thing. The idea (I think) was that if you get the heart then it kills for sure, but if you miss it does nothing. Incremental damage plays no part in this.

If this could be implemented, then I agree it would be an effective and thematic way to downpower the VQ.

[PvK]

I was thinking the wooden stake would be a cheap misc slot magic item with the effect that if that character defeats a vampire using hand-to-hand combat, then the vampire's immortality doesn't work. That is, wooden stakes aren't melee weapons, but tools for permanently getting rid of vampires who are already in a helpless state.

PvK

[Cohen]

I'd remove Immortality first of all. Vampires can be killed.

The Fly is very useful, but I'd change it ... Vampires fly as bats, so it would be nice if this flying movement wouldn't allow to attack cause it's assumed the Vampire is in his bat form ... well he could change aspect at will ... but we've to limit it.

Regeneration ... why they regenerates? In fact Vampires are very healthy, but they drain life from their victims ... I'd add recuperation (that is now useful because Immortality fades in the void).

His draining attack ... I'd remove it cause VQ cannot bite in battle so easily without exposing herself to enemy strikes.

Ethereal ... this is fine.

Raise the new path cost ... to 70 or 80.

[Zapmeister]

I'd remove Immortality first of all. Vampires can be killed.

But not by normal means, i.e. melee. The immortality is definitely thematic, but I like PvK's method of removing it.

so it would be nice if this flying movement wouldn't allow to attack

Except that this would involve programming a new kind of flying. All units that fly currently can fly to attack.

His draining attack ... I'd remove it

Draining is perhaps the most recognizable and thematic trait of a vampire.

Ethereal ... this is fine.

But strictly speaking, it should be mistform. If you're looking for something to axe, this is a candidate.

Raise the new path cost ... to 70 or 80.

For sure.

[SelfishGene]

Has anyone tried modding Mistform instead of Ethereal for all vampire units and tried that out instead? Vampire myths aren't always consistent on how exactly they should be killed; Carmilla, for example, written in the 1840's, seems to emphisise decapitation and burning as well as staking. And neither are peculiarly magical forms of attack.

From some tests its clear any flying unit with regen, life drain, ethereal, mistform, MI, quickness, high prot/attack is going to kick ***, just some kick it more than others.

Another giant problem is life drain that early in the game. Once successful attack replenishes her fatigue, which is just as if not more important than the life siphoned off.

The basic problem with the VQ is that she just simply has too many natural spell effects. Get rid of a couple of them and she should be alright.

IMO get rid of fear (beauty), replace ethereal with mistform (so she has to use a cloak instead of armor) (and should be done for all vampires), remove regen (already has life drain), strength to 10 or 11. And maybe change Life Drain globally to not siphon or remove as much fatigue.

Edit: and change Immortality to not work if unit is fatigued out (100+).

[ April 20, 2004, 03:22: Message edited by: SelfishGene ]