Useless or redundant units?

[Nerfix]

I really like the LA Tien barb cavalry. It's like a composite bowman, a Knight and an imperial swordsman rolled into one.

[Sandman]

One thing about light cav which has always irked me is the (occasional) lack of a hoof attack. Yes, they're not always warhorses, but light cav needs every break it can get.

[Epaminondas]

Thanks for both points, Quietly. I had not factored in the Icaryds' smaller size and thus their role as a complement to the Wind Riders. Nonetheless, properly blessed, my Wind Riders hardly ever die in SP v. AI in the Demo. As for the Chariots, you are also right; they can get rid of infantry faster than the Wind Riders with trample. But then I tend to use an SC Pretender with the trample boots, so I guess that's why I didn't see infantry as a major issue.

[Epaminondas]

Nerfix,

I don't think saying that the Kailasa sacred are blessable is really of help, because so can the sacred of other nations. Units should be evaluated first on the basis of their raw stats.

Several folks have mentioned "awe," and how, pardon the pun, "awesome" it really is. Could someone be kind enough to explain the arithmetic of it? I only have the Demo, so I don't know how "awe" or "fear" work. It would be helpful if numbers are thrown out. For instance, if a particular has a plus 10 awe (or plus 10 fear), what does it exactly do to troops fighting against it?

[Epaminondas]

Gandalf Parker said:
The idea of redundant or worthless units keeps popping up but there isnt much agreement on what they are. What you think of as worthless might better be phrased as "worthless for the way I play". Check the differences and see if you cant come up with a strategy or tactic which might rely on that difference. Slightly cheaper, or better morale, or different weapon or armor.

Dear Gandalf Parker,

We have some serious philosophical differences. Taken to extremes, what you seem to be suggesting is that the game is perfectly balanced, and there are no units that are extremely powerful or extremely weak or redundant per cost. Do you really believe this? It would assume that the game designers have infinite resources and infinite powers of judgment. Even game makers with far greater resources tinkering games with far fewer variables and aspects like Blizzard take years to get the balance right.

Of course, but then you may subscribe to Dr. Pangloss's belief that this is the best of all worlds--against which I cannot say much

By the way, regarding your implication/accusation that I am singling out units that do not fit my playing style, well, I tend to be an extreme experimenter. I am not the type of person that finds the "right" tactic and play it to death. So while I can appreciate a specific analysis of where I have gone, to make a quasi-ad hominem argument along the lines of "You are too stupid to have figured out how to use the unit" isn't really helpful for anyone.

[Zen]

Epaminondas said:
Several folks have mentioned "awe," and how, pardon the pun, "awesome" it really is. Could someone be kind enough to explain the arithmetic of it? I only have the Demo, so I don't know how "awe" or "fear" work. It would be helpful if numbers are thrown out. For instance, if a particular has a plus 10 awe (or plus 10 fear), what does it exactly do to troops fighting against it?

As far as Awe is concerned. Awe makes a unit do a morale check in order to even attack the unit with Awe. I'm not sure if the Awe modifier just adds to your side of the OE roll, but I'm pretty sure it does.

This means that most units under 17-18 Morale have a very difficult time attacking units with base Awe. This makes awe very powerful against mundane units (standard units with 8-14 morale, before blessing) but nearly useless against high morale units (Undead, Mindless, Constructs)

Fear works by making a unit force a morale check with a modifier equivilant to the fear formula in the AOE the fear covers. I don't know if lesser fear is in Dom3, I haven't noticed it yet, but lesser fear is invdividual units, while /Cause Fear/ gives a AOE equal to the modifier, with a -1 to the morale check for every 5 levels of the fear.

[Unwise]

Epaminondas said:I don't think saying that the Kailasa sacred are blessable is really of help, because so can the sacred of other nations. Units should be evaluated first on the basis of their raw stats.

I must respectfully disagree. If you have two units that are absolutely identical other than one being sacred, you simply cannot price the sacred one the same as the mundane one. If for no other reason then the mundane one would never be purchased... even with no bless strategy, a generic bless causes sacred troops to have better morale.

You have to look at the sacred attribute as a "raw" stat to be priced as well, and it is not one that can be assigned a set value because so very many factors come into play. Sacred archers will benefit from a water bless more than a sacred cavalry unit, which will benefit from a fire bless more than a an armored unit, which would benefit from an Earth bless more than....

The proper choice of a bless strategy and the greater availability of sacred units in one nation over others is one of the major themes of Dominions, and probably more so in Dom3 then in Dom2.

[Zen]

Unwise said:
You have to look at the sacred attribute as a "raw" stat to be priced as well, and it is not one that can be assigned a set value because so very many factors come into play. Sacred archers will benefit from a water bless more than a sacred cavalry unit, which will benefit from a fire bless more than a an armored unit, which would benefit from an Earth bless more than....

I would just have to say that Water bless is good on most cavalry, it is by far the best universal bless because not only does it give +4 Def/Quickness but your pretender recieves +1 Def for each point of Watermagic it recieves.

But you are right you do have to choose the right bless for the right units.

[Corwin]

Zen said:

I would just have to say that Water bless is good on most cavalry, it is by far the best universal bless because not only does it give +4 Def/Quickness but your pretender recieves +1 Def for each point of Watermagic it recieves.

Not really.

Considering that most plaayers who take level 9 bless and double lvl 9 bless will choose dormant or imprisoned pretender, and considering that role of single SC in the mid-late game is much less in Dom3 than it was in Dom2, and finally considering that defence attribute in Dom3 in general got a very large nerf from Illwinter (esp. so for SCs), +1 def per water level for your pretender is certainly not a major factor when evaluating water bless.

[Turin]

Heh those yakashas are one of my favourite blessable units. I tried air10 w9 n4 dom9 lady of rivers and it mops up indies and most AI troops. The usual 9 guys + priest you get per turn can beat any indie 5 province with very few losses.

in addition to combat the low protection you have e3 mages, which can easily cast legions of steel once you get const 3, but I haven´t tried that strat yet.