Questions about soviet artillery and other in game - Page 4

Suhiir · #31 December 7th, 2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

FINALLY......

The comment about a 12,7mm HMG taking out a Abrams is, to me, total fantasy, and the fact you repeated it as fact causes me to question any claim you may have to objectivity as this only proves you'll believe just about anything .

Don

I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it

Imp · #32 December 8th, 2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

In 1 picture M1A2 destroy by 12,7mm HMG. Anyone can destroy M1A2 in game from 12,7mm MG?

Must have been the elusive M1A2 Halftrack

Marcello · #33 December 8th, 2009, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it

I have often heard this 25mm vs T-62 accident (or a similar one) being touted as the "proof" that US armor piercing rounds capabilities are greater than estimated, that DU is uber etc.
Needless to say everyone was pretty vague about the details of the engagement

.
Nice to know it was cumulative damage against a static target requiring a disproportional expenditure of ammunition. Any AFV can be penetrated in this way by weapons it would normally be able to resist.

For an historical example see this King Tiger shot up at Kubinka

In the field with it moving and shooting back achieving all those hits would be a bit tad more complicated...

Marek_Tucan · #34 December 8th, 2009, 11:19 AM

Actually the described incident seems to be some GIs having fun wioth captured stuff, but 25mm DU (or 30mm APFSDS for that matter) seems to have enough potential to punch through side or rear hull of most tanks (as it can do in game) - given you're lucky enough to survive to get close enough

After all T-34 would be able to destroy Abrams, if it gets to flank or rear. Or M3 light or T-70 for that matter

Marcello · #35 December 8th, 2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan

Actually the described incident seems to be some GIs having fun wioth captured stuff, but 25mm DU (or 30mm APFSDS for that matter) seems to have enough potential to punch through side or rear hull of most tanks (as it can do in game) - given you're lucky enough to survive to get close enough

After all T-34 would be able to destroy Abrams, if it gets to flank or rear. Or M3 light or T-70 for that matter

I should have mentioned that the T-62 was supposed to have been penetrated in frontal arc in those tales; that the side hull hull, rear etc. would be penetrated by an high performance autocannon round is not a controversial matter.
A glacis penetration by means of cumulative damage (as in the KT picture above) seems entirely feasible as well, but that requires a cooperative target...

DRG · #36 December 8th, 2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it

OK, fine but the issue was 12.7 mm rounds not something with 8 times the penetrative ability

Don

Kartoffel · #37 December 8th, 2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcello

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it

I have often heard this 25mm vs T-62 accident (or a similar one) being touted as the "proof" that US armor piercing rounds capabilities are greater than estimated, that DU is uber etc.
Needless to say everyone was pretty vague about the details of the engagement

.
Nice to know it was cumulative damage against a static target requiring a disproportional expenditure of ammunition. Any AFV can be penetrated in this way by weapons it would normally be able to resist.

For an historical example see this King Tiger shot up at Kubinka

In the field with it moving and shooting back achieving all those hits would be a bit tad more complicated...

Do you know what part of the tank the picture features? I would also be interested to know what rounds caused the various sized holes. Nice picture

Wdll · #38 December 8th, 2009, 09:21 PM

It looks more like something cluster ammo would cause.

DRG · #39 December 9th, 2009, 09:23 AM

It's the front of a Tiger 2. The big hole is where the BMG used to be and I'm guessing it was 152mm AP that did that, maybe 122

Don

Suhiir · #40 December 9th, 2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it

OK, fine but the issue was 12.7 mm rounds not something with 8 times the penetrative ability

Don

As Marcello said it was just an example of "could happen" given optimal conditions and lots of ammo.

I suppose you could do the same with 12.7mm AP rounds - eventually. Assume each round puts a 1mm divot in a tanks armor you could drill thru with a few hundred/thousand rounds!

Of course there are always folks fail to see the difference between possible and practical