Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)

[Andrés]

Jimbob, jawas aren't even neutrals, their worthless planet is controlled by a Hutt lord, and shared with Tusken raiders and humans.
Sandcrawler based ships? Not likely, the Sandcrawler is a CEC design brought by Corellian miners.
Tough I may add Jawas as another outlaw race, using the same set of ships that Black Sun, Bounty Hunters and Smugglers will use.

Fyron here's the description you requested

Mod: Star Wars Mod II

URL: http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/files/sc...ross/index.htm

Mod Version: hmm... Beta

SE4 Version: 1.84

Description:
hmm... the same description of the B5 and AST mod?
A mod under construction based on the Star Wars universe.

Perhaps I should expand a little...

Players have to choose between "Standard SE4 Tech" or "Star Wars Tech"+"Race Tech" e.g. "Rebel technology". (Note: so far only the Empire and the Rebels have their own techs working, other races will have to use Standard SE4 Tech)
Each race gets exclusive technology, that includes components, facilities, intel projects and vehicle sizes based on the Star Wars movies and the expanded universe.
All races research the familiar tree of stock SE4 (plus a few actually exclusive techs), but get different things. What makes trading or analyzing technology from alien races possible.

The StarWars Mod II is the beginning of a more ambitious project, the Science-Fiction Crossover Mod that will incorporate (adapting as necessary) things from other mods such as The New Star Trek Mod and the B5 Mod.

[Erax]

Do you guys think all of the outlaw races should have P&N - style 'invisible civilian ships' ? I personally think they should, although they might be used for different purposes - the Black Sun would get early boarding parties for ship capture because they are more 'piratey' than the others, while smugglers and bounty hunters would use them for espionage.

[jimbob]

well, I think that it would be fun, but I guess I already said that

Andres: yeah, only 3 more components per races, but if you consider that the SW universe will have what, 8 major races? The B5 mod as it stands now has in excess of 10, and counting, and the ST(AST) mod could easily offer us 10 races too. Really, we're looking at 30+ races without making any major deletions to the three mods (but also not picking up too many new races either). = 90+ components. I think a type of heirarchy within the racial traits screen could reduce this significantly. Just my thoughts...

Also, I think it would be easiest to have the player choose their "Universe" as a racial trait. That way you can enter things like the "sheilding system" and "propulsion system" only once for each universe, as opposed to a) having the same shield systems and propulsion systems for all races in all sci-fi genres or b) having to enter a series of shields, engines, fighter engines, etc for every single race

Anyhoo, keep on truckin' my friend, I for one am really looking forward to this mod. And as to the Jawa bashing... i't noonoo etni atnoo, podwai!

[ June 28, 2003, 18:00: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[TexasHawk]

Hello all... new poster here.

First of all, I have been playing SE since its 3rd iteration, and I have to say that it's going to be hard to top 4.

A few observations about the SW-II beta...

Andres, this is officer work here. When completed, this is going to be an exceptional mod/game (why the hell couldn't Star Wars: Rebellion play like this??) Anyway, the ships and graphics are top-notch. Those SSD's look great!!!

Game balance: I find that overall, generally, the Empire has far superior technology (at least in my games) I think having the Heavy Command Vessel and the Death Star make it too easy for the Empire to insure late-game domination. Granted, it's HARD to build a DS (or even a PDS) but still... I think the minerals it should take to build should be absolutely momentous, both to reflect the immensity of the task and the maintainence it would take to keep it operational. (Oh, and you should give X-wings Ability: Destroy Death Star)

I agree with Fyron... it is odd that the superlaser tech is right there at the beginning (and cheap!) It was the first thing I researched, and then imagine my frustation at not having the requisite 15MT ship to stick it on...

I love the fighters. The fact the the TIEs are small, but hard to hit, and the Rebels are much bigger, but can have more weapons and shields, are excellent. Plus, the graphics are wonderful.

It's funny how the neutral races are always kowtowing towards the Empire when they first meet them. Don't know if this is wired in or just the fact that the Empire is so much stronger... but it's still funny!!

You might want to put a note somewhere in a Readme or something about the % scale mods. I had a frantic first few moments while I was trying to figure out what the hell to do with a bridge that was 6 times the size of my ship... but the idea itself is great.

I think Stormtroopers should be a little harder to build. As it stands, you can easily build 200-300 a turn. Are these supposed to be squads? Armies? Individual troopers?? The scale is nice, though. On a larger note, it took me a few games to get used to the various scales. I am sorry to say that the Eee, with their 'standard' SEIV weapons, chewed up my Frigates pretty nicely. The balance within the Empire and Rebels are nice, but having 'neutral races' that throw off the balance hurts it until the endgame, where the stuff the Empire can throw out can chew up anybody.

Great events. More of them, too. I lost 2 planets in 1 year alone Last game! Also, something I thought might be cool for an event is something along the lines of "The Emperor/Mon Mothma has requested several of your front line ships for reinforcements in an important sector." and then you lose a random # of ships. Just a thought...

I think having something like Kwok's captains would be awesome... kind of like 'Rebellion' where each person had different powers and gave an area/planet/ship bonuses, but were fragile. You could have Darth, Thrall, Luke, Han, etc... but a) is it possible to have only one of a 'component' at a time in play and b) would Kwok give you permission? This is actually an idea I had before I started reading the Posts and his ST conVersion, but still...

I like the damaging warp points, but I think hyperdrive is somewhat limited. The higher levels are worth it, but early on (.1, .2) it's not worth the space.

The Targeting computer is too powerful, IMO. 50 units at a time? I realize fighters play a much greater role in this mod but still... that should be something to work for, because that's a powerful ability especially on the Rebel side where you can have 50+ weapons on each battlecruiser....

Anyway, just some thoughts/suggestions. I really, really, really love where this mod is going and I can't wait to test each iteration for ya, Andres!!! Awesome, awesome stuff!!!



Steve

[Andrés]

We already have a "universe" racial trait that sets things such as shields, propulsion and weapons AND a "race" racial trait that adds things such as ship hulls and some exclusive components. For example imperials have green firing lasers on their star destroyer hulls and the rebels get red-firing lasers on their mon-cal cruiser hulls.

As for the number of races, yes we don't want to have too much, I don't think we'll have more than 5-6 races (at least in tech means) in the SWmod2.
I think that by the time we get to star with the crossover part we may only pick the major races for each universe, plus perhaps an additional trait similar to the sw-outlaw trait for minor races.

I like the idea of 'invisible civilan ships', maybe even the Rebels should have some.

[TexasHawk]

Basically, I guess what it sums up to is that while I'm cool with the Empire having better stuff (after all, that was how it was), it should be VERY hard to get it and build it. I don't care it the Empire spanned thousands of worlds, you didn't see 15 Executor-class SSDs looming around every battle. As for Death Stars, you're basically building a Sphereworld with a highly complex and infinately more massive interior with the most complex systems in the history of the galaxy, and think of how hard it is to build one of those in the 'unmodded' Version!! If the Empire 'can' get *a* Death Star, it should represent the pinnacle of their power, and should be treated as such within the balance. Also, is there a way to have one built affect relations with other empires? Really, that's what the DS was built for in the first place.. as the ultimate negotiation and diplomacy tool.

"What's that? You won't accept our generous Subjugation arrangement? That's fine. We've taken too much of your precious time as it is. We'll be leaving now."

"Oh, and good news!!! As a token to show no hard feelings, we will provide your ice world free terraforming shortly into a much warmer climate!! Enjoy..."

Anyway, as I said, great, great mod. And good people who have good ideas for the mod. This stuff is what keeps a 3+ year old game fresh..

Steve

[Andrés]

Sorry TexasHawk I didn't see your message.

Game balance: I find that overall, generally, the Empire has far superior technology (at least in my games) I think having the Heavy Command Vessel and the Death Star make it too easy for the Empire to insure late-game domination. Granted, it's HARD to build a DS (or even a PDS) but still... I think the minerals it should take to build should be absolutely momentous, both to reflect the immensity of the task and the maintainence it would take to keep it operational.

The empire should be the major race having better tech and more resources than anyone else.
They should have some happiness problems wihitin their own planets althoug I not sure if the's working.

(Oh, and you should give X-wings Ability: Destroy Death Star)

That would be cool, but it doesn´t look like possible.
Perhaps a special fighter torpedo that can not be researhed by bust be obtained by intel or analyzing captured imperial ships, and that haves some odd effect against adainst death start.
And it would be nice to have a sun-crusher that can actually survive the star destruction.

On a larger note, it took me a few games to get used to the various scales. I am sorry to say that the Eee, with their 'standard' SEIV weapons, chewed up my Frigates pretty nicely. The balance within the Empire and Rebels are nice, but having 'neutral races' that throw off the balance hurts it until the endgame, where the stuff the Empire can throw out can chew up anybody.

On my test games the standard SE4 AI races were ahead in the early game but if you managed to survive long enough you would turn the tide.
Balance would be a major issue specially when we get to the crossover mod part.

I think having something like Kwok's captains would be awesome... kind of like 'Rebellion' where each person had different powers and gave an area/planet/ship bonuses, but were fragile. You could have Darth, Thrall, Luke, Han, etc... but a) is it possible to have only one of a 'component' at a time in play and b) would Kwok give you permission? This is actually an idea I had before I started reading the Posts and his ST conVersion, but still...

We can't make Rebellion-like characters. I'd like to see how Kwok's captains influence the game before deciding to copy the system.
It wouldn't be nice to add a "Dark Lord of the Sith" in every ship.

I like the damaging warp points, but I think hyperdrive is somewhat limited. The higher levels are worth it, but early on (.1, .2) it's not worth the space.

I'd like hyperdrives to be a way to control the teleporting spatial anomaly event, with range and other rules to limit it. Instead of the emergency propulsion they are now.
.1 hyperdrive is pretty useless, but with .2 you get the motivator that allows you to use it every turn.

The Targeting computer is too powerful, IMO. 50 units at a time? I realize fighters play a much greater role in this mod but still... that should be something to work for, because that's a powerful ability especially on the Rebel side where you can have 50+ weapons on each battlecruiser....

The idea was that in sw weapons are not shot from the bridge, each weapon emplacement is manned by an individual gunner, or team of gunners and can target independently from any centralized system, often only recieving general orders from the command crew. Perhaps this ability should be moved to be built-in the hulls.

Thanks for the feedback.

[TexasHawk]

quote:
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The Targeting computer is too powerful, IMO. 50 units at a time? I realize fighters play a much greater role in this mod but still... that should be something to work for, because that's a powerful ability especially on the Rebel side where you can have 50+ weapons on each battlecruiser....
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The idea was that in sw weapons are not shot from the bridge, each weapon emplacement is manned by an individual gunner, or team of gunners and can target independently from any centralized system, often only recieving general orders from the command crew. Perhaps this ability should be moved to be built-in the hulls.

Ah... good point. Makes sense. Then perhaps it could be called 'Centralized Fire Control System' or something like that...

Steve

[Andrés]

There is no damage type that matches how ion cannons are supposed to work.
That was the better way to simulate Ion cannons when we first introduced them.
Give bridges and life support a small boarding defense ability so they are targeted by an only ss damage type. When those components are destroyed the ship is supposed to be 'disabled' but with minimun damage.
Now with some changes in the hardcoded rules of the game, perhaps the boarding defense ability should be moved to the supply holding components (that is reactors, SE4 engines, sup. storage)

[openair]

about the scaling mountss:

i like the idea, but the AI doesn't use them at all... puts quite a crimp on the AI when they can't even colonize...

is there anyway to get the AI to use these kind of mounts?