Oblivion - Page 5

shovah · #41 March 27th, 2006, 07:15 PM

okay ive got it now and i am more than pleased with it. ive only played for a little while and im not long past the tutorial but im very pleased with my buy. this pc is rubbish so the graphics are set to low and most of it still look great (buildings arent the best though) and my life as a wood elf hunter/assasin has begun. ive been practicing my stealth and archery on deer who, while hard at first to catch and hit are relatively easy now (yay, non stat based hitting

) and im enjoying my new life (with specialisations in stealth, archery, blade skills, athletics, light armour and a few others im faster and more than capable of throat slitting and arrow peppering)

anyone who does not own this game buy it now

alexti · #42 March 27th, 2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Cainehill said:
Yeah. Most such "skill" based (as opposed to experience based) games are fundamentally flawed, in a very cheesy "console-ish" manner that dates back to Final Fantasy VII or so. Gamers should be rewarded for playing skillfully, for concluding battles in a skillful and expedient manner. Instead, these games to some extent force the player to drag the battles out, whether to build up skills, or to build up "materia" (FF series) or simply to ensure that all characters get swapped into the party so that they get experience. In order to win the hard battles, you have to dick around in the easy ones.

Contrast this with an experience based game : typically, little or no experience is gained for the easiest battles, so there is no reason not to rapidly blast through them as quickly as possible. Who cares if a character doesn't get 1/10,000th of the experience required to go up to the next level? This allows the player to spend her time and attention on the interesting, challenging, fights, instead of the chicken scratch ones.

I think that hybrid system would work better: you earn experience (quadratically or cubically depend on difficulty of the task - your "power" is proportional to your total accumulated experience), but rather than gaining levels you spend your "experience" on your skills with the major skills increases being cheapest.

Cainehill · #43 March 28th, 2006, 01:14 AM

Sure - I've played several P&P RPGs that worked that way, generally with some success. Or pure skill based ones that didn't have any levels or classes, Runequest being a wonderful example of such.

Daynarr · #44 March 28th, 2006, 04:50 AM

Those that don't have oblivion or are just waiting for it may give Mount & Blade a try. It's free download and demo allows you to play freely with one character until you reach level 6.

Warning* its extremely addictive.

PrinzMegaherz · #45 March 28th, 2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Alneyan said:

Quote:

PrinzMegaherz said:
If I'm not completely mistaken, you only level up by increasing your primary skills to a certain amount. Her strategy does not involve leveling those skills, so she would forever remain on level one. And I doubt that you could master the arena with a level one character, as your abilities like Hitpoints etc. would be far too low to survive some of the more fierce battles.

That's basically her purpose, actually. In Daggerfall and Morrowind, you do *not* want to level up, especially if you happen to be a mage. Compared to other games, your health is relatively high on level 1, and does not rise much with other levels; Mana does not increase at all, and you could aim for the 85 Intelligence on level 1 with ease in Daggerfall (Morrowind is a bit more reasonable here, I think). So, your fire power is comparatively greater than elsewhere, and your access to magic is virtually unlimited.

I have played a character with all skills starting at 5 in Morrowind, and frankly can't say I've noticed much of a difference. Though I had all my important skills in primary/major (and so levelled rather quickly), I was not seriously challenged past the first few levels - that is, once my Destruction skill reached an acceptable level (20% odds of casting isn't great). Note that it was playing the GOTY edition; in earlier incarnations of the game, Magicka was pretty limited (or so I've been told). In Daggerfall, I know I took down the odd Daedra Lord or three at level 2, while deliberately trying not to level up (bloody Language skills made me go up to level 2). Magic *is* powerful (continuous effects anyone?).

I also dislike very much the mindless levelling of some "non-combat" skills that the system implies. Raising, say, Speechcraft takes a *while* if you use the skill in a rational manner. There is only two ways of getting the skill to a reasonably high level without spending ten months on the same character: training, or the clicking madness. Speechcraft could be raised relatively quickly by bribing the same character left and right (until his disposition dropped to 0), even though there was no point in doing so. Training is the other panacea, wherein gold buys power, which buys more gold, and so on. Training has been revamped in Morrowind, though it may be even more useful than before, as you can now get trained above 50.

Note that I speak about Daggerfall and Morrowind only, as I haven't played Oblivion (but there does not seem to be any significant difference). I find the skill-based system to be more interesting than the classes found elsewhere; problem is, the particular implementation of the skills seem to be flawed in those games. It seems to reward the number of successful uses, no matter how trivial (spells without any "real" effect anyone?), and does not consider how important these successes really were. Quantity over quality... hey, doesn't that sound like the levelling scheme of your average MMORPG? (Ultima Online comes to mind here)

I agree with the last part. I'm playing a thief/assassin, and find it hard to increase my skills. As a Warrior, I would need 3 slashes of my sword to kill my enemy. As an assassin, it only takes one stab from behind. Though the results are the same, the warrior will increase his skills three times as fast.

Vicious Love · #46 March 28th, 2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

PrinzMegaherz said:

Quote:

Alneyan said:

Quote:

PrinzMegaherz said:
If I'm not completely mistaken, you only level up by increasing your primary skills to a certain amount. Her strategy does not involve leveling those skills, so she would forever remain on level one. And I doubt that you could master the arena with a level one character, as your abilities like Hitpoints etc. would be far too low to survive some of the more fierce battles.

That's basically her purpose, actually. In Daggerfall and Morrowind, you do *not* want to level up, especially if you happen to be a mage. Compared to other games, your health is relatively high on level 1, and does not rise much with other levels; Mana does not increase at all, and you could aim for the 85 Intelligence on level 1 with ease in Daggerfall (Morrowind is a bit more reasonable here, I think). So, your fire power is comparatively greater than elsewhere, and your access to magic is virtually unlimited.

I have played a character with all skills starting at 5 in Morrowind, and frankly can't say I've noticed much of a difference. Though I had all my important skills in primary/major (and so levelled rather quickly), I was not seriously challenged past the first few levels - that is, once my Destruction skill reached an acceptable level (20% odds of casting isn't great). Note that it was playing the GOTY edition; in earlier incarnations of the game, Magicka was pretty limited (or so I've been told). In Daggerfall, I know I took down the odd Daedra Lord or three at level 2, while deliberately trying not to level up (bloody Language skills made me go up to level 2). Magic *is* powerful (continuous effects anyone?).

I also dislike very much the mindless levelling of some "non-combat" skills that the system implies. Raising, say, Speechcraft takes a *while* if you use the skill in a rational manner. There is only two ways of getting the skill to a reasonably high level without spending ten months on the same character: training, or the clicking madness. Speechcraft could be raised relatively quickly by bribing the same character left and right (until his disposition dropped to 0), even though there was no point in doing so. Training is the other panacea, wherein gold buys power, which buys more gold, and so on. Training has been revamped in Morrowind, though it may be even more useful than before, as you can now get trained above 50.

Note that I speak about Daggerfall and Morrowind only, as I haven't played Oblivion (but there does not seem to be any significant difference). I find the skill-based system to be more interesting than the classes found elsewhere; problem is, the particular implementation of the skills seem to be flawed in those games. It seems to reward the number of successful uses, no matter how trivial (spells without any "real" effect anyone?), and does not consider how important these successes really were. Quantity over quality... hey, doesn't that sound like the levelling scheme of your average MMORPG? (Ultima Online comes to mind here)

I agree with the last part. I'm playing a thief/assassin, and find it hard to increase my skills. As a Warrior, I would need 3 slashes of my sword to kill my enemy. As an assassin, it only takes one stab from behind. Though the results are the same, the warrior will increase his skills three times as fast.

Wait, so that same system is still in effect? Ugh. I mean, ugh. First rule of playing a Morrowind mage: Never cast one worthwhile spell when three dozen pathetically weak ones will suffice. Ideally of the sort that can be cast while running across the countryside, targeting nothing in particular.

shovah · #47 March 28th, 2006, 04:09 PM

yea, the leveling system loves warriors and hates anyone who sneaks

PrinzMegaherz · #48 March 28th, 2006, 05:34 PM

Well, my sneak skill keeps increasing rapidly. As long as I do not try to become arena champion, it should work out.

shovah · #49 March 28th, 2006, 07:03 PM

im not a member of the dark brotherhood, im also extremely wanted and always on the run. i genereally run out of town before taunting a soldier off his horse and stealing it. my bounty is around 14k atm and im having the time of my life. my next chsracter will be a noble paladin just for the hell of it

PvK · #50 March 28th, 2006, 10:23 PM

Nice pictures, but personally, I have an imagination, I greatly dislike D&D, and games with ridiculously steep power curves, and games where the difficulty of the world is magically based on the level of your character. Whew, I just saved a bunch of time and money!