Nations that seem strong/weak

[Graeme Dice]

Agrajag said:
Maybe here lies the problem, you are too used to dom2's death scale, which was almost a no-brainer.
This here is dom3, a whole different beast.

Other than the effect on old age afflictions, Dom3's death scale is identical to Dom2. A death 3 scale should be a no-brainer for Abysia, just like a heat 3 scale is, or a drain 3 scale is for Ulm. This is one of the nation's advantages to offset their use of the second weakest type of elemental magic and slightly overpriced troops.

[Graeme Dice]

Archonsod said:
Well, it's your choice whether to work around a nation's disadvantage or not. Abyssia is one of the few nations whose only real disadvantage is rather trivial to bypass.

A 10 blood slave cost for every single mage you recruit is not trivial. It's a massive cost that will become 30 or 40 slaves per turn at a minimum.

[Agrajag]

Graeme Dice said:
Other than the effect on old age afflictions, Dom3's death scale is identical to Dom2.

But that's a serious effect, don't take it too lightly.

A death 3 scale should be a no-brainer for Abysia, just like a heat 3 scale is, or a drain 3 scale is for Ulm. This is one of the nation's advantages to offset their use of the second weakest type of elemental magic and slightly overpriced troops.

But that's more of a thematic problem than a balance problem. I don't think death should be a no-brainer for Abysia, nor do I think Drain is currently a no-brainer for Ulm (if you don't plan on using your national mages for research [which makes sense, since they aren't very good at it] it can really hurt)

[Graeme Dice]

Agrajag said:
But that's more of a thematic problem than a balance problem. I don't think death should be a no-brainer for Abysia, nor do I think Drain is currently a no-brainer for Ulm (if you don't plan on using your national mages for research [which makes sense, since they aren't very good at it] it can really hurt)

If you aren't planning to use Master Smith's for research, then what _are_ you planning to research with? And how are you going to pay for the almost required productivity 3 scale without taking drain 3? Even worse, your troops will be slaughtered by MR negates effects without the drain scale helping to protect them.

Death should certainly be an automatic choice for Abysia, or else their death scale resistance provides them with no actual benefit. Instead, they suffer worse from it than most nations thanks to their universally old fire mages. Or would you argue that Caelum should sometimes not take cold 3? If playing nations thematically isn't a powerful way to play them, then something is probably wrong with how they are balanced.

[dirtywick]

If in a future patch or mod the Blood spell Rejuvenate took away old age afflictions in addition to making them younger I'd consider the death scale a good choice. I also think, the way the death scale currently effects Abysia, that playing the death theme isn't a good idea. The effects of the death scale on Abysia specifically definately needs to be looked at and adjusted as I don't think the tradeoff is worth it.

[Agrajag]

Graeme Dice said:
If you aren't planning to use Master Smith's for research, then what _are_ you planning to research with?

The Master Smith. Right until the point I find an independant mage

[NickW]

Graeme Dice said:
A 10 blood slave cost for every single mage you recruit is not trivial. It's a massive cost that will become 30 or 40 slaves per turn at a minimum.

If you are buying mages in that much bulk you can afford to lose a few. Think of it as the expense for balancing out the free design point from a death-3 scale.

[Graeme Dice]

NickW said:
If you are buying mages in that much bulk you can afford to lose a few. Think of it as the expense for balancing out the free design point from a death-3 scale.

Why should there be any kind of balancing factor? Abysia was certainly not anywhere close to overpowered in Dom2, being a fire nation, so why was it necessary to nerf them, (And Marignon), so terribly in Dom3?

[Nerfix]

It's also a blood nation though. Blood is Good. But I do think that old age hit abysia too hard.

[mivayan]

Nerfix said:
It's also a blood nation though. Blood is Good. But I do think that old age hit abysia too hard.

Early and middle age abysia can only build blood hunters in capitol, so it's a pretty crappy blood nation.

LA abysia however trades battlemages for blood hunters in it's non-capital castles, so they can at least get a good blood income.