Paper, Rock, Marignon!

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Sure, I've got no problems with nations being dramatically different, but I think they should be based around rational concepts. Nothing like the killer dominions.

"I've got an idea! We have this theme that uses hordes of free troops! Because they're free, you don't need scales to support them, so they'll have a beefy SC Pretender ALL THE TIME! Oh, and their dominion KILLS EVERYONE, so armies can't invade without nature magic or fay boars! And when they do, the land is TOTALLY USELESS because EVERYONE'S DEAD!"

In what way is pop killing dominions not a rational concept? If you are trying to point out a flaw or suggest a change your cause would benefit from presenting it in a polite way.

[ April 30, 2004, 13:02: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Cohen:
The Ermor problem (or better, advantage) is that he can take a lot of points from scales, getting 600 points more or less (Turmoil 3, Death 3, Sloth 3, Cold 3 = 480. Misfortune ... up to you ... 3 would be nice, most events kills pop, but this prevent you from receiving national heroes. However from 0 to 120 additional points).

So on his pretender is almost always overpowered ... for Ashen Empire and Soul Gate.
So it would be nice in a patch to see Ermor not getting pretender design points from non-affecting bad scales. He gets only from Lucky and the Magic scale.

Powerful does not mean overpowered. If AE or SG Ermor is overpowered it is not from the pretenders, these have been this way since dom 1 and Ermor certainly wasn't overpwered in MP then, perhaps it has become so after income reduction etc in dom 2, but the cause of any imbalance is not that their pretenders have more magic than other pretenders.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Mardagg:
Wasnt the topic about Marignon...oh well

[...]Especially in large games,where everyone has to plan for longterms,everyone knows,that an early attack on Ermor will severely hamper his own expansion(maybe getting gems,but no income;producing more priests/researching special spells/producing special troops which may become quite useless afterwards)compared to others who wage war against "Normal "nations or only indies.

Putting things back on topic with Marignon ... I'd say almost half the nations in the game at least have themes where it doesn't hurt them at all to build up the priests to fight Ermor.

Marignon : Priests who can cast Holy Pyres, who are very solid mages, or who only have Fire-1 but can cast fanaticism.

Vanheim : Priests who are mini-SCs with the right equipment, who can also cast lightning and other air spells.

Pangaea : Dryads who are stealth preachers which also have nature magic and are the nations most cost efficient researchers.

Pythium, Serpent Cult : Mage priests. Base Pythium is even better with its _huge_ combined priest / mage commanders.

Atlantis : Very beefy fairly cheap combat Consorts, and beefy fanaticism casting Coral Queens.

Abyssia : Anathemants and Demonbreds - priests with good fire magic, flying, etc.

Arcos : Priestesses with nature magic, research, and healing.

Man : Last of the Tuatha theme has great commanders with priest abilities, Sidhe and Tuatha.

C'tis : No one ever got crucified for hiring a Lizard King (Priest 4).

Caelum : Stealthy flying priestly Seraphines.

Jotunheim : Huge Jotun Herses / Godes : Sacred Priestly mini-SCs. And Neifel Giants are obscene, with their theme.

R'lyeh : Priest 3s with Sorcery _and_ a random magic pick? What's to regret building?

Mictlan : Ouch! I've never played them - but good level (P3/P4) priests, most of whom have blood, and who additionally have lvl 2 Fire, Water, Astral, or Nature magic?

T'ien C'hi : Their mages are priests. All Ermor does is get the mages into the HoF.

That's an awful lot of nations / themes that don't lose anything in the long run for having to recruit priests to combat Ermor, imo.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Mictlan : Ouch! I've never played them - but good level (P3/P4) priests, most of whom have blood, and who additionally have lvl 2 Fire, Water, Astral, or Nature magic?

All but 1 of the national commanders of Mictlan are priests. They can throw absolutely massive numbers of holy 2 priests at Ermor.

[HotNifeThruButr]

Never played Mictlan. Seems kinda boring when you need blood summons to make an effective army.

Oh, right johan osterman, I forgot about the magic sites, which are basically the most important thing in the game because who needs a mundane army when you can have a summoned one?

<==== is an angry little man

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Never played Mictlan. Seems kinda boring when you need blood summons to make an effective army.

Why would that be boring?

Oh, right johan osterman, I forgot about the magic sites, which are basically the most important thing in the game because who needs a mundane army when you can have a summoned one?

I'm not sure what you are complaiming about. There are very few effective armies that can be built out of summoned troops only.

[HotNifeThruButr]

Well, when I played my first Mictlan game, I kept thinking to myself. Why didn't I use any other blood nation instead? The ones that have troops that can actually stand up against the enemy and compliment my demonic divisions of doom.

And on that second part, I meant that an enormous percentage of your armies can be made of summons and your nation soldiers just become support. Looked like I meant armies made completely of one type or the other, my bad.

[Teraswaerto]

Try Mictlan with a Fire 9 Moloch. Sun & Eagle warriors are quite good for their cost, and Jaguar Warriors can be build in all castles.

[HotNifeThruButr]

Are jaguar warriors sacred? I was under the impression that they weren't

[Yossar]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Are jaguar warriors sacred? I was under the impression that they weren't

So the little icon on the unit description that says "Sacred" is just a big trick by the Ilwinter guys?