Helheim - lets burn some rubber

[MaxWilson]

Oooh, black heart + black bow, now *that* is wicked. Works even against units with bodyguards, and the Chest Wound doesn't hurt as much if you're just firing a bow. One reason I was skeptical earlier of someone raiding you and popping your temples is that Helheim is already *scary* to raid since you never know what's there; now even if you take the province there *still* might be assassins hiding to kill all your mages.

BTW, Piercer costs 3A as well as 3E. That's a hard path combo; did your pretender forge it or did you find some metal adepts or something?

-Max

[Baalz]

The piercer is only 3E in CBM, making it viable. Its on the long list of things that you'll have a very hard time putting to cost effective use in vanilla.

[WraithLord]

But how well would that work against an SC with a shield or the missile prot. amulet or spell?

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

But how well would that work against an SC with a shield or the missile prot. amulet or spell?

Only rarely, but you might get lucky. If you're using Bow of Botulf, it's worth trying.

[MaxWilson]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Feeblemind on the Black Bow of Botulf is a secondary effect like poison. In that case, a shield won't stop it although a missile amulet might.

-Max

[Sombre]

Botulf is shieldproof, yes.

Missile protection still stops it though iirc.

[vfb]

Botulf is Magic so you get +2 on the hit roll, but I don't think it's shieldproof. I thought since the Feeblemind is an effect, not effectauto, that you need to do 1HP damage for it to affect the target. (This is according to Edi's DB.) But see the next post, I don't think the 14-dam hit needs to do damage to trigger feeblemind.

Anyway, I tested with Lugh shooting a Titan (parry 9).

In one case the arrow landed in the Titan's square but did no damage or feeblemind:

auto placement player 3
deploycom Noth at 23 11
deploy_side 185 at 23 11 (w60 h30)
deployunits
...
gettarget player 16 targtype 5 unr 340 eu 185 mode 2
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg14 eff2 spc1073741826 as-1 al0
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg33554432 eff11 spc1073872896 as-1 al0
battle_incheck
leftplayer teamhp 108 max 108

The titan was set to Hold x 5, Retreat. Visual check shows he's still in 23,11 when the arrow hits the square. Lugh managed to hit the 23,11 square twice, and both times the Titan did not take damage or get feebleminded.

[vfb]

Update, the Titan finally got feebleminded. There was no damage from the dam-14 on the bow. But the feeblemind is aoe-0, so I think that's triggering a shield check, I can't think of any other explanation for why the arrow hits the square at least 10 times without feebleminding the Titan.

----- turn 3 (rand 384)(check 26336429)
Battle running along just as I have forseen
battle_incheck
rightplayer teamhp 29 max 29
Mrlreport (right): good2 broken0 autobreak0 turn3
Closest enemy (for unr 340)
gettarget player 16 targtype 5 unr 340 eu 185 mode 2
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg14 eff2 spc1073741826 as-1 al0
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg33554432 eff11 spc1073872896 as-1 al0
battle_incheck
leftplayer teamhp 90 max 90
Mrlreport (left): good0 broken0 autobreak0 turn3
battle_incheck
----- turn 4 (rand 233)(check 26313981)
Battle running along just as I have forseen
battle_incheck
rightplayer teamhp 29 max 29
Mrlreport (right): good2 broken0 autobreak0 turn4
Closest enemy (for unr 340)
gettarget player 16 targtype 5 unr 340 eu 185 mode 2
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg14 eff2 spc1073741826 as-1 al0
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg33554432 eff11 spc1073872896 as-1 al0
affectvic vic185 hv0
hitunit 340 185 dmg33554432 spec1073872896 ba1
battle_incheck
leftplayer teamhp 90 max 90
Mrlreport (left): good0 broken0 autobreak0 turn4
battle_incheck

[Loren]

I've been trying to play with this and the strategy makes no sense. I have yet to get a start where I have the resources needed to produce the indicated troops early on. The specified army can only conquer weak provinces and if you don't get enough of them around your capital you won't have the resources.

It also left me unable to cope with invasions from two sides the one time I didn't get stuck at the start.


Finally, what's the point of the N4? 5% regen just isn't that much on the sort of units you are using.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by vfb

Botulf is Magic so you get +2 on the hit roll, but I don't think it's shieldproof. I thought since the Feeblemind is an effect, not effectauto, that you need to do 1HP damage for it to affect the target. (This is according to Edi's DB.) But see the next post, I don't think the 14-dam hit needs to do damage to trigger feeblemind.

Anyway, I tested with Lugh shooting a Titan (parry 9).

In one case the arrow landed in the Titan's square but did no damage or feeblemind:

auto placement player 3
deploycom Noth at 23 11
deploy_side 185 at 23 11 (w60 h30)
deployunits
...
gettarget player 16 targtype 5 unr 340 eu 185 mode 2
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg14 eff2 spc1073741826 as-1 al0
blastsqr: unr340 x23 y11 aoe0 dmg33554432 eff11 spc1073872896 as-1 al0
battle_incheck
leftplayer teamhp 108 max 108

The titan was set to Hold x 5, Retreat. Visual check shows he's still in 23,11 when the arrow hits the square. Lugh managed to hit the 23,11 square twice, and both times the Titan did not take damage or get feebleminded.

I don't know about 'effectauto' but poison assigned to secondaryeffect will work even when parried and the same is true of various other effects. I haven't tested botulf though, while you have. That would suggest there's something about an effect that decides whether it requires damage to be dealt or not, which is good news for the potential fixing of poison missile weapons.