[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Thermodyne]

A little fun with the Inspectors

Inspector: Tomorrow we will inspect the chemical plant at Carbala

Iraqi: Tomorrow will be a bad day for that.

Inspector: How about next week?

Iraqi: We will have the plant ready on Thursday.

Inspector: Out standing, tomorrow we will inspect the abandoned partially destroyed bunkers at Arum again.

Iraqi: Cool, we have nothing there except some Mercedes that Saddam got in the oil for food program. Perhaps you would like it if we made you a gift of one.

Inspectors report: No WMD were found at the facility in Arum.

Iraqi report: No WMD were moved out of Carbala, 16 trucks were not used to move them, and they were not buried in the desert outside of Naira. The trucks were returned to the motor pool on Wednesday morning.

UN report: UN inspectors have not found any WMD; the government of Iraq has been cooperating fully.

[jimbob]

Primitive:

I'll think on your response.

Originally posted by phaet2112:

So they haven't found anything in 8 years of looking.

Why then the assumption they have the wmd?

Because the Iraqi govt has records of producing certain volumes of UN mandated illicit weapons (biological and chemical). But they have not provided records of destruction for much of the weaponry. For example, there is about 30 000 L of unaccounted for Anthrax somewhere (dead or alive) in Iraq.

Well, you can't just wave a magic wand and *poof* the 30 000 L of anthrax is gone! The Iraqi govt claims to have destoyed this unaccounted for stash, but also claim to have no records of the destruction. Could the records have just been misplaced? Maybe a little mix up? Oh, it was that silly administrator Ahmed, you know how messy his desk is, it must just have been misfiled.

For comparison... the British did a little experimentation with Anthrax on some Scottish Isles during WWI, and 40 years later the thing (and it's neighbours) was still "death island". They had to go up with in excess of 100 000 L of formaldehyde to clean it up (ie sterilize the island).

Now even if we give an incredible amount of credit to the minimal inhibitory concentration of formaldehyde vs anthrax spores, (and factor in things like the island was sprayed with less than 30 000 L of spores, but the spores were spread out across a huge surface area of soil) the Iraqi gov't would need atleast equal quantities of formaldehyde (or equivalent agent) to sterilize/destroy their stockpile(s).

Now an agency will have a pretty tough time of purchasing 10 to 30 000 L of formaldehyde (or equivalent disinfectant) and not leave a shred of a paper trail. There have to be letters request, of purchase, of transfer... there will be work orders and paycheques and duplicate and triplicate copies in governmental department after governmental department. Not to mention the biohazard suits used to keep the handlers alive (say 10 to 15 000 $US a pop.) specialized trucks, the original bioreactors, etc. That's a lot of dough and a lot of equipment to be "hidden down a hole" with no paper trail, let alone a no physical disposal site!!

P.S. And that's just the Anthrax, what about the chemical agents that are claimed to have been destroyed, but again with no paper trail?

[ March 27, 2003, 00:12: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[tesco samoa]

Perhaps while were waiting for the Iraq Govn't to come to trial for use of " WMD " etc..

Perhaps the trial should begin with the people who sold them the " WMD " and proped up the Dictatorship and supported it. The Decision Makers.

Perhaps the prosecution of these " war criminals " would stop future generations from repeating and supporting these horrible decisions and policies.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Aloofi:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Some1:
And about the WMD. Why didn't the US took any steps to prevent the israeli get them?

R.

The Israeli Nuclear Program was and still is the best keeped secret in the world. What is known was "leaked" to deter the Arabs from launching a conventional or unconventional war against Israel. That's why Israel keep a "triada" defense system (Missiles, planes and subs), to make sure that if one or two of the defense systems are destroyed the rest can still fire back. The way is seen in Israel is that without nukes Israel would have had been overrun by Arabs already, and the jewish population exterminated like the Arabs leaders have promised to their people and as the Arab propaganda machine have been putting in their people minds since the creation of the Jewish State. For Israel nukes are a question of survival.

But the most important argument is that Israel had nukes for the Last 30 years, and have never used them.

---

Israel and South Africa developed their devices in a joint program. This is a well-known fact. But where did they get the equipment and know how that was needed to achieve the rapid development and deployment of the devices? Anyone? For a clue, look up the location of the test site.

[Krsqk]

High school bully – GWB/USA
Give me your lunch money or I’ll kick your a** – Let the inspectors in or we bomb you.
OK – OK
Thanks for the money but I’m going to kick your a** anyway – I really want to bomb you, I’ll just have to use the 9-11 and free the oppressed Iraqi people excuse instead.

Just a minor quibble here, but the demand should read "Provide the inspectors with substantive proof of your total disarmament," not "Let the inspectors in.

[Askan Nightbringer]

Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:

---

Originally posted by phaet2112:
So they haven't found anything in 8 years of looking.

Why then the assumption they have the wmd?

I think there are other reasons but here is one: Because they were kicked out.

---

They were not kicked out.
First they withdrew at the request of the US ambassador. Richard Butler (head of UNSCOM at the time) admitted it. The withdrawal was so they would be safe during a bombing blitz by US/UK forces. The Chinese and the Russians were very angry he withdrew without the permission/knowldege of the Security Council, and it was the end of Butler. Other inspectors went in but the bombing incident and allegations that inspectors were spying for the US pretty much ended any chance of success and the program was aborted.

Askan

[tesco samoa]

I asked a few questions a couple of Posts ago... I was hoping that we could talk about it... As I value everyone opinion here.

Side note.... I hear that they increased the range of the tanks to 100 miles or so until they have to change the filters.... Is this true???? I remember Last war they had a range of about 15 to 30 miles then the sand would kill them...

I am surprised that the guard came out to attack... Big mistake. Their strenght was to not allow the Colilion strenght which to battle in the open...

[Askan Nightbringer]

Tesco, what questions were they?

Askan
Oh look, I get some low Ratings. Is this the new system for judging those who support the Troika of Killing and those who don't?

[tesco samoa]

Asken... I think I dreamed them... Man... Carry on and ignore the crazy canuck...

[Fyron]

Originally posted by primitive:
It is no way this war can be considered legal. Many believe the war to be fair, righteous and/or necessary, but it is by no means legal.

The “official” reason for the war is failing to comply with the UN charter. Only UN can sanction such a war. The time when a war was legal because one party called it is over.

This war is a case of US doing the classic high school bully (sure you have met some of those) thing.

High school bully – GWB/USA
Give me your lunch money or I’ll kick your *** – Let the inspectors in or we bomb you.
OK – OK
Thanks for the money but I’m going to kick your *** anyway – I really want to bomb you, I’ll just have to use the 9-11 and free the oppressed Iraqi people excuse instead.

This is how most people in my part of the world feel. It’s going to take a long time for the US to rebuild their old friendly “big brother” image.

A nation has every right to declare war for any reason it wants to. Morality does not equal legality. All that a war needs to be "legal" is for an official declaration to be made. The reason(s) for the war may not be morally suitable, but the legality is certainly there. "Legal" does not mean "right", any more than "illegal" means "wrong" (or vice versa).