Mod: Kingdom of Angmar - Version 0.52 available

[LumenPlacidum]

Gundabad Warrior (cap-only heavy infantry with a bit less offensive potential; that's berserk +3, reinvig 3):


Snaga Goblin (light infantry; berserk +2 and good stats for size 1):


There are 6 more units to go in their basic lineup before I post a working copy.

[kianduatha]

Ooh...nice, nice.

Initial comments--just to preserve armor numbers...couldn't you just give Gundabad orcs Plate Hauberks? Similarly, I might go for Rusted Chainmail or something on Snagas and also lower their resource cost, seeming as you mentioned them scavenging instead of having to give them equipment. Ugh, I just noticed their 8 encumbrance too. The graphic for snagas is rather confusing, also--I had a bit of trouble the first time around figuring out where the head was.

Berserk and what, 11 spellcasting encumbrance on those Shamans? That's tough, especially for their poor magic paths. I'd at least throw them a bone and make them only 220 gold or something. They also could stand to be 14 magic resist instead of 13.

As a sidenote, do units with a dousing bonus but no blood still do well at bloodslave hunting?

The Gundabad Warrior looks incredibly awesome. In fact, he looks way more awesome than the Elite Warrior--so much so that I'd suggest switching the names and just giving the Elite Warrior a broadsword(which might make more sense anyways, and make him more well-rounded). They can stand to be better, anyways--if you're worrying about their expansion, think of it like this: they're flat out inferior to Dai Bakemono, and Shinuyama doesn't exactly have a rocket-fast opening.

Orcs of all sorts should have more hitpoints methinks, if just on principle. 16 for elite warriors/shamans, 14 for the regular Gundabad warrior, 11 for snagas. Speaking (again) of snagas they could actually maybe go down to 7 or 8 morale(bearing testing, of course).

With the 15 gold cost on Angmar Bowmen, they're more than capable of having composite bows. I can assure you this will not become an archer nation.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

As a sidenote, do units with a dousing bonus but no blood still do well at bloodslave hunting?

IIRC, you need to be a blood mage in order for the douse command to work.

Although there might be a workaround but I haven't tested it. You could give the unit #magicskill 7 1 and #magicboost 7 -1, which should result in the oxymoronic blood mage without blood magic.

[LumenPlacidum]

I was initially going to give snagas rusted chainmail, but it actually has a resource cost of 0. I guess I could just add to the unit's base resource cost, though. I admit that in playing with them, the snagas are a bit hard to get to those teeming millions that they should be able to manage.

Hmm, if I gave the Elite Warrior a Plate Hauberk and a Broadsword instead of the Morningstar and custom armor, then berserk they'd have 16 attack / 9 defense instead of their current 17+2 attack / 6 defense, and their resource cost would go up from 29 to 35 what with the actual armor requiring more effort than just stapling sheet metal to orcs. I'll give it a try like that.

[kianduatha]

Ah, I didn't realize that the Heavy Plate Mail had actually a *lower* resource cost. It rubs me the wrong way to have something called that not like 20 protection, though.

On a second, not sleep-deprived look as far as mechanics go the elite warrior should probably have the morningstar to keep the 'offensive' option clean and then have the more well-rounded regular warrior. I was just going off which graphic looked cooler.

I'm actually sort of afraid that the regular Gundabad Warrior isn't actually worth the cost--compared with the Angmar Swordsman(which is appropriately priced for this nation) you lose what, 6 defense? All for one strength and a bit higher prot.

[LumenPlacidum]

The berserk +3 matters quite a bit. Reinvigoration base can be used against fatiguing spells that are there to "soften up" your troops before they close the distance. Finally, the cold resistance is clearly useful in some situations. The problem is the comparison with the elite warrior.

I agree that the gundabad warrior is not so much cheaper than the elite warrior (or the warg rider, but I haven't done that sprite yet) that it is frequently as good of a choice. I might actually go back and redo the elite warrior sprite, since it's one of the first ones I did.

I was alarmed in my tests to see squads of the bowmen alone beating knight indies. They took the lance charge without batting an eye. I think two were killed against about 20 knights. Then, they beat them back in melee. It may have been a fluke.

I agree in being sort of dissatisfied with my snaga sprite. I really want to give the impression of being slouched over in a very strange stance. Perhaps it would help if I had greater contrast in my palette. The rusty metal, brown leather, and dark green skin all sort of blend together into a mess of an image.

I might give the gundabad shaman 1B base and retain the blood possibility in the random magic. Then, I'd give them 1 higher research penalty. I'm not so sure about cutting their cost. With an earth blessing, they are *frightening* thugs, even without any equipment. E9 gives them reinvig to match that very heavy encumbrance and they've got a mid-20's prot when berserk with that.

[kianduatha]

You're right, I'm not really accounting for the berserk(which is pretty nice).

That situation with the angmar bowmen seems to be a fluke--they're good, but expensive enough that they're by no means overpowered. The buckler's a nice touch, though. They'll definitely win any archer duels if you can ever get enough of them.

I sort of like the shamans being able to thug out of the box(and be poor combat casters because of it). I doubt people will take an E9 bless just for the shamans(and witch king, who doesn't need the reinvig at all). They're easy enough to deal with, though, with that low a magic resist.

[LumenPlacidum]

Nightblade (the random paths are 50% D and 10% DS; I know they have plate cuirasses and that's not really reflected in the picture. I figured they could wear them under the robes. These are the mages you get at high levels of PD, so they're the linchpin of the cave trolls):


Everyone loves assassins who can cast disintegrate!

[rdonj]

So far my main concern with this nation is, is it even playable? Mages are universally expensive, weak, and terrible at research. Do they have any magical options that are viable to allow them to survive in midgame? Or can they only be played against mod nations that are specifically designed to also suck at magic?

[LumenPlacidum]

Well, that midgame is really going to be the hard part for them. They have pretty good access to death magic. The Witch King gives them at least some access to astral. The Gundabad shamen have blood magic, frequently at B2 with douse 1 natural. So, late game magic should be pretty good for them, but really, a lot of that is riding on the Witch King. Their national mages are good enough to cast a few staple spells. The recruit-everywhere ones can cast frozen heart, numbness, shadow bolt/blast, disintegrate, ghost grip, skellispam, and orb lightning. The cap-only ones can cast falling fires, pillar of fire, prison of fire, disintegrate, ghost grip, bane fire takes a staff or gems, skellispam, blood boil, hellfire, hellbind heart, leech, and some acid spells with a bit of help from gems and a water bracelet. They can forge all of the penetration items (though using the Witch King to make the astral ones is probably a waste). Rituals-wise, they have quite a few blood possibilities, with vampires and various demons being quite viable, but also leviathans, undead archers, and such. Using a pretender to get access to the higher-path blood summons and boosters would get you up to more diversity there. Hidden in snow is castable by the recruit-everywheres, and the nation has enough death to climb the ladder to tarts, but has no means of un-afflicting them naturally. With the Witch King, you can even skip ahead directly to lichcraft.

When I get to national summons, I'll probably be giving them some wraith summons to act as thugs. The barrow wights from The Fellowship of the Ring were men of Angmar.