Neo Standard for SE V?

[Fyron]

All we need to do is clearly indicate the relative positioning new sizes should have compared to the stock sizes. Is this one the biggest warship? The smallest? Between cruiser and battlecruiser? For a mod, you can arbitrarily remap the model names to whatever hull class names you want. Don't have an escort, but want to use all the hulls? Ok, start your mod's destroyer using the "escort" hull, light cruiser using the "destroyer" hull, and work your way up from there. If someone uses a non-neostandard set, they get the two smallest hulls using the destroyer model, rather than the two largest hulls using dreadnought.

I don't think that we should suggest that shipset modelers completely rename the stock sizes. That will just sow confusion.

I don't think we should insert extra hull sizes in the middle of the progression anyways. Maybe one at the small end and one at the large end (not counting a worldship). That would increase the range of warship hulls from 7 to 9 (counting the baseship hull as a standard image, since it is called for by stock, though most stock sets don't include one).

[President_Elect_Shang]

So we are back to square one, what are the new suggested sizes. Sizes not classes or roles! I think Explorer and Escort are sizes but both have been tossed back as roles/classes. How about Corvette then on the low end and Juggernaut on the high end? That's two more for nine.

[Phoenix-D]

I'm sorry PD no offense but I honestly don't understand any of what you are trying to say here?

Any neo-standard should not require modifying stock or changing the names of any of the stock files.

[Shadowstar]

An explorer can be a big ship with weapons and science equipment, like the Enterprise, or it can be a small ship designed to be cheap and fast. An Escort can be a small ship like a police cutter, or a medium ship, like an interceptor.

A simplified approach seems best in my opinion. Here is what I would suggest: (stock sizes are marked with *'s, new stuff is marked with +'s)

Units (troops covered seperately):
* Small
* Medium
* Large
+ Special (For mods, looks like a medium version with some extra bits - one for each unit type. Fighters could use this size as a shuttle, drones could use it as a probe, etc.)

Troops:
* Small Troop
* Medium Troop
* Large Troop
+ Infantry (this seems to be widely requested so might as well put it in)
+ Special Troop (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods, maybe unneeded?)

Warships:

* frigate (also used for escorts, recon ships, cutters)
* destroyer (also heavy frigates, patrol ships)
* light cruiser (corvettes, destroyer-escorts)
* cruiser
* battleship (also lineships, flagships)
* dreadnought (man-o-wars, juggernaughts, megatonners)
* baseships (motherships, super-megatonners, nubians)
+ worldships (deathstars, city-ships, generation ships)
+ special light (An unusual-looking ship, about the size of a light cruiser, for mods)
+ special heavy (An unusual-looking ship, slightly smaller than a dreadnought, for mods)

Transports:
* small freighter
* medium freighter
* large freighter
+ special transport (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods)

Carriers:
* light carrier
* medium carrier
* heavy carrier
+ special (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods)

Bases:
* space station (orbital forts, orbital construction yards)
* starbase (defense stations, mining bases)
+ special (special type with some unusual looks to it, for mods)

By using special types for the majority of new sizes, it leaves alot of room open for the designer to make race-unique ships, and have those ships then adapt to whatever mod they are inserted into. It's important to remember that what we are designing here doesn't stop at the sizes of the ships, but is really much more connected to what they look like. For certain ships, there is no reason to really have them look any different, but for others there needs to be a visual difference, both in size AND shape.

It should also be noted that many of the units have universal defaults, so instead of designing 3 different troops, you could just make one and call it "troop" and it would use that for all 3. I mention this because anyone who is planning on doing the extra work involved in making a Neostandard++ shipset is most likely going to also be making these extra models which are still technically stock.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Shadowstar I never said they weren't also roles and classes I said for me they are sizes too.

You have done a fine job outlining what may be added for a NEO++. Now what are they going to be called; "Special.bmp"? Worldship and baseship don't count.

[Shadowstar]

I'd say stick with the stock naming scheme when possible. Treat special as a size/modifier. IE: special weapon platform.x, special drone.x, special light.x, special heavy.x, special base.x, etc.

[Fyron]

Ok, to get this rolling again, what do we think of this as the neo-standard? This would add 6 unique hulls to the stock set.

Keep in mind that the stock game already has a lot of "neostandard" type models called for, but not in general use. They add about 15 extra possible models shipset authors can already add to their sets and see used in the stock game.

Warships

+ Corvette/Scout (sub-frigate sized ship, name up in the air)
+ Juggernaut (super-dreadnought, not the same as baseship)
+ Worldship (generally spheroid, for the death stars et all)

Baseship is already called for by stock, but not used. A note about this would be good.

Carriers

Light and Heavy already called for by stock, so I don't think we really need any more.

Civilian Ships

+ Resource Ship (not positive on this one's general utility, but many seem to like it)

Small/Large freighters already called for by stock.

Bases

+ Battle Station (base to go between space station and starbase, as in all previous SE versions)

Units

+ Infantry (non-mechanized troop unit)

Small/Medium/Large unit versions of all units are already called for as primary models/layouts, though generally not used in stock shipsets, so we don't need to include those as part of the neostandard. A note about them would suffice.

[Baron Munchausen]

Space stations are underpowered in the SE series. The lack of need for movement should allow a much size greater advantage.

How about calling the basic station an 'Outpost'? After all, they start at 600 kt, which is merely the size of a cruiser. Add a few levels so it can reach 1500 kt. Then you can have a true 'space station' start at 2000 kt or so. And then bump starbases up to something more. At least 3500 kt. They should max-out at 5000-6000 kt or so.

For ship sizes, we don't need anything smaller. We need a class between dreadnought and baseship, though. Maybe borrow 'Titan' class from Moo? Or even Behemoth and Leviathan from Moo3. Baseship should still be the largest, and still use the starbase model. And it should be limited to a movement rate of ONE in all circumstances. It's just too huge to move faster without miraculous 'Q' powers.

[Suicide Junkie]

IMO, we don't need more ship sizes. We need to make the ones we have, useful.

Same with weapons. What good is a space station full of random heroes when you can put a superman in every police car?

[Fyron]

The juggernaut was meant to go between the dreadnought and the baseship; then you have the worldship for the crazily massive stuff.

We can't rename the space station hull, and making a sub-600 kt base would be silly. You can call your hulls whatever you want in your own mod; we just need common names for models.

Much of your post is about a specific mod, not a generic set of hull models. Same with SJ's post.