AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
Originally posted by Alneyan:

quote:

---

However, you have mentioned the possibility to add +8% and +16% conditions improvement facilities. If so, you would need only eight years with the latest facility to go from Deadly (0.0/0.1) to Harsh (0.3) compared to 39 years with the regular +3% facility of the vanilla game. And of course, you could still add a few additional facilities to speed up the process.

Alneyan, the proposed decision to raise the conditions level 4 and 5 improvement facilities to +6 and +12, is in fact solely based from your time consuming research and should assist in raising most Planet levels to optimal.

AIC Players have benefited from this when we consider the Cultural Centers on an AIC Homeworld has only 3 logical free slots available and only 2 when one is a natural Merchant that prospers with that additional HW CC.

This we all will appreciate

Thanks
That was excellent work

John

---

Sweet Way to go Alneyan

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Agreed. I reconsider, one of the cat events is planet core instability. With that in mind, a catastrophic -10 effect on conditions is still a nightmare, but it is still much better than core instability. You see, I am not sure what I want...

Now we are two

[Grand Lord Vito]

[quote]Originally posted by JLS:

Obviously all cannot be used or totally intact, but as a tool to start any project with, it is my opinion there can be no finer.

>PvK's Traits Balance Mod<
- - - -
[quote]
What will you do with AST. Do you plan to drop the cost in AIC?

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
Incidentally, I would second JLS's suggestion to try at least once a No Warp Point game. I only played with such settings a few days ago with AIC, and I have to say these games are as or even more enjoyable than the regular ones. It might not suit your tastes, but you do not have much to lose in trying.

No Warp Point games are boring
Try No Warp with FINITE, now this is a challenge

Actually, I will take up JLS’S suggestion to try No Warp COMBINED with NOT all warp Points Connected.
This with a regenerated Centurion Map to my liking and for my total pleasure, I will play with FINITE resources

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
As for the reproduction rate, yes I did understand afterwards. I have to admit I expected something much more complicated. I am even quite disappointed. Joking apart.

JLS, are you going to let him get away with this

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:

quote:

---

Originally posted by oleg:
Only a true paranoic would tow it to Mars first

I see what you mean.

However, opening warps a to a few opponents that leads back no mater how many systems, directly over your Home World only makes for a Last stand and that will be so much easer for your opponent and less time for you to recover or even diplomacy; as your HW may become Blockaded or even captured. With few to no options left.

Not to mention if this was just a recon in force from a friendly AI Player, the damage is done, he did not know what was on the other side of that Last warp, tif he could only say “well sorry about our ships attacking your Home World” >”it not to late for a trade agreement is it”

If you open Warps over your Home World and then stack Warp points in other system; theoretically your opponents can attack in one turn from the other side of the map to your Home World in one turn with no worry about its fuel supply.
Repeating the worst case, but very possible scenarios above.

As it is today with some successful military doctrines, you may consider a blocking, diVersions, and or holding actions. Before contact and well before your opponent can approach your best terrain.
= = =
A possible strategy; but may come back to bite you. With first contact, maybe if we give a new friendly or serine AI Player the copy of your Home System Charts, as a token. He may avoid your HS with a large force if it knows what it is, this may be worth a try if you find that the above scenarios may come into play

---

It sounds like it might work, but you will not see me doing it

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
AIC Players, please consider.

We have to choose!

(1) As AIC is (now) Random Events are with both Good and Bad Things
or (2) Random events that will only be bad and hurtful.

(c) Some may like Lucky in multiplayer games, this will result in fewer events (good and bad), even possibly altogether. Also reducing the Trait cost to lower then existing 500, or/to the considered 200. Cursed would go. (Keeping good and a reduced LUCKY)

= = =

Another choice on the impact to the Events may be the Fate Shrine; with Good events, again this is defeated; theoretically.

(f) We can remove Ability altogether and leave Religious at 1500 as opposed to the considered increase to 2000.(Keeping Good)
Keeping (GOOD) will include the removal of any {Change Bad Event Chance} Urban Center subscriptions as well.

JLS, are you keeping the Change Bad Event Chance on the Relig. Culture Centers?

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
Also can you explain the planet value system a little more in depth.

Thanks

In regards to (PV) this is the textbook answer from Frequently Asked Questions.

Basically, the FAQ will apply for all Human Players that play AIC. With the exception of Cities and Urban Centers Homeworlds inclusive; they afford Commerce (Imperial Trade if you will) to the Human Player and is thereby unaffected by PV to a degree in AIC.

Loosely, this application of Commerce is applied also to the entire economy for the AI on AIC and is thereby NOT effected by poor Planet Values. Directly that is

I will follow-up with how I Interpret the AI perceptions on some PV applications and AI scenarios.

---

OK, can you answer some of my questions now

How do you "Interpret the AI perceptions on some PV applications and AI scenarios."

[JLS]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
* For the events: I would believe that Homeworlds cannot/are seldom targeted by High or Catastrophic events according to numerous tests. However, the Homeworlds are protected, NOT the system in which they are. It means they can be destroyed because of a Star Destruction, as a star is targeted by this event instead of a planet. Of course, this hypothesis will be wrong if anyone here has saw a player homeworld destroyed by the Planet - Destroyed event.

As for the actual tests, is there a way to log all what happens in a given game without having to actually play? PTF spoke of logs, but I am not sure if they can do that and how you can activate them. I will run a few tests, hoping there will be no weirdness to alter the results.

Agreed.

Great. I am tweaking 4.06beta Events now, when I am finished with it I will send it to ya
- - - -

And as for the reproduction/environemental resistance at the Empire creation, I would support an increase to both Reproduction and Environemental Resistance characteristics, so that the cost needed to have a +10% bonus to reproduction rate should be around 1500 points. (It would also depend on other factors) But this is an approximative value as deciding of a cost to increase/decrease a characteristic is quite a hard job.

Finding a formula to fit AIC v4.0, should not be to elusive for the below Characteristics:

Characteristic Environmental Resistance (you are suggesting a 33% increase over v3.02?)
Characteristic Reproduction (you are suggesting a 33% increase over v3.02?)
Characteristic Happiness
Characteristic Construction

Characteristic Maintenance (Always preferred as a High Price item in AIC) AIC -v3.0 also had Maintenance Aptitude Max Pct:= 120. But there was something missing when you could not reach godlike status, so v3.02 went to Max Pct := 130. However AIC v4.0 like v.3.02 will max out with Maintenance Aptitude Max Pct := 130 at 3000pts

Therefore, the Replicant Centers would only be useful on worlds with few settlers (below 300 millions) or in conjunction with an improved Reproduction if you can spare the points.

Absolutely

In addition, this attribute is very powerful; as it will reproduce actual Pop each turn and this will apply to every Colonized Planet for that entire System

reference
Change Population - System
Value1 = Population in M that will be added each turn for entire system.
Value2 =

So, perhaps you could consider improving the efficiency of Replicant Centers or decrease the researches needed to be able to build them? (You need level 4 in Organinc Engineering and Organinc Manipulation for now) Maybe a second level for this facility, "creating" 2 million workers each turn, could be made? (Especially if you increase the basic reproduction rates)

Agreed, it may be time to ease the Research requirements to build the Organic Race’s Replicant Center a little.

= = = =

With respect towards an additional Organics Replicant Center added to AIC, please consider:

SE4 complements the Organic Races with only 3 facilities: Replicant Center 1-3, Gestation Vats 1-3 and Medical Labs 1-3.

AIC Replicant Center only one level. However AIC also offers increased values for the basic Organics Facilities:

AIC Gestation Vats 1-3 produce nearly double the Production rate to that of vanilla se4.

AIC Medical Labs has everything that Vanilla se4 has. In addition to a 20% higher Plague Prevention – System per/level increase and this starts at level one. AIC yields an over all effectiveness of 80% as opposed to Vanilla se4’s 60% for maximum System Plague Preventions.

~ ~ ~
In addition to above, AIC offers, more Organic Facilities then that of vanilla se4:
Organics Generation Settlement +
Organics Generation Colony +
Organics Generation Center +
Please compare the facilities with the AIC Non Organics Race Farming Facilities; you will notice a huge benefit with Organic Solar Generation, which the Organics doubly enjoy
To point out that Solar Generation is a nice benefit for new Colonies, as it will yield very good Crop Harvests with much less people required . When compared to the other Resource Gathering (Specific) Facilities.

Planet Lore 1-3. That yields a modest 1 thru 3 percent towards the increase the entire Systems Planet Conditions Change.

Above plus the economic advantages enjoyed with affording Starliner Costs that propels a Human Player Organic Race towards early game growth and that leads to an inevitable productivity increase, sooner then non-Organic.

That is a lot on the Plus side
In my opinion, yes true the Organics have many different weapons, is this really a plus. Since, other then the Organic Armor and the 20kt Electric Discharge Weapon; they have to pack the same size ships as every on else.
On the Plus side, there is a lot to be said for the Missile technology that increases in conjunction with other weapons. When it comes to Point Defense, it is near Imposable to take out scores and scores of incoming Missiles fired at your fleet

Also to mention but not to compare since every race has their individual Specific AIC Racial Urban Centers.
Macrobiotic City
Agrarian Cultural Center

Reference
Name := Farming Settlement
Description := Biological growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games farms have an added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := Resource Extraction
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 60
Cost Minerals := 1500
Cost Organics := 10
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Extraction
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 350 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 250
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 100
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

Name := Organics Generation Settlement
Description := Organic growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games, OG Farms have an extra added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := . Organic Facilities
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 60
Cost Minerals := 1500
Cost Organics := 150
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organic Engineering
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 400 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 200
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 200
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

= = =
Name := Farming Colony
Description := Biological growing facilities which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games farms have an added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := Resource Extraction
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 2
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 98
Cost Minerals := 2000
Cost Organics := 15
Cost Radioactives := 10
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Extraction
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 450 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 325
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 125
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

Name := Organics Generation Colony
Description := Organic growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games, OG Farms have an extra added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := . Organic Facilities
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 2
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 98
Cost Minerals := 2000
Cost Organics := 200
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organic Engineering
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 500 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 250
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 250
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
= = =

Name := Farming Center
Description := Large Scale biological growing facilities which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games farms have an added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := Resource Extraction
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 3
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 99
Cost Minerals := 2500
Cost Organics := 20
Cost Radioactives := 50
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Extraction
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 550 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 400
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 150
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

Name := Organics Generation Center
Description := Organic growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games, OG Farms have an extra added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := . Organic Facilities
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 3
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 99
Cost Minerals := 2500
Cost Organics := 250
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organic Engineering
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 600 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 300
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 300
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

[ September 22, 2003, 12:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

as Originally posted by GLV:

JLS, this why I continue to advocate keeping the original AIC events file from the past. We have never seen any problems or bugs when actually playing a game with it.

I understand most of what you and other Players have posted. However, you also must agree nothing that is ventured - is nothing to be gained?
- - - -

What will you do with AST. Do you plan to drop the cost in AIC?

To decrease Advanced Storage Techniques, this is an interesting question.

Please consider that decreasing AST by 1000 points will also give all the AI Gas Players in AIC:
Eee
Abbidon
Cryslonite
The now extra 1000 points to Spend on what ever, and many feel they get of to a great start as it is with the extra Culture Centers they do enjoy with either AST or Nat Merchant trait that is added to the Homeworld.
Also to consider, these extra points would impact balance of the other non-ast AI Players and the ast AI Players will still be as tough with you

With that said, with the LAN Club players that beta tested AIC v1.0 thru v2.0; most of them felt they had to have the AST trait to compete against the other Human Players.
When the AST cost was raised, the number of players dropped to only a few that would take this trait, and moved on to other traits for example Organic or just purchased more aptitude. ANd this is also what PvK suggestes in the readme.

Actually, the same applied to Organics Races selections with in the LAN group, when there was 3 levels of Organic Replicant Centers and MASS:=1000; most said that was the clear choice for the Competitive edge.
- - - -

No Warp Point games are boring
Try No Warp with FINITE, now this is a challenge

Actually, I will take up JLS’S suggestion to try No Warp COMBINED with NOT all warp Points Connected.
This with a regenerated Centurion Map to my liking and for my total pleasure, I will play with FINITE resources

Well, some may disagree about N-W being Boring.
However some may also agree, you really have your hands full playing No-Warp in Finite.

Also note: In a No Warp COMBINED with NOT all warp Points Connected game there is a good chance that you will start with one opened adjacent System. If you also play with Neutrals, you may get lucky and have Tex, Cluck, Nultoh, or Bobroba next door from jump to Trade with as well, so this may be of some aid in your Finite game
- - - -

Originally posted by Alneyan:
As for the reproduction rate, yes I did understand afterwards. I have to admit I expected something much more complicated.

It really wasn't that complacated to add to a CC, as Alneyan states.

However also to add, with some applied specific Racial Abilities on the individual Racial Culture Centers does save the need to get into a few Research Paths early not to mention the need to Build some Specific Facility early. In addition, it does not hurt and having a few Advantages on the Home World and in Home worlds, system does seem realistic. Please refer to reference below for some examples.

Alneyan is also correct maybe we should add the Values to the CC description, I have always struggled with the fact that some information added; might suggest that the author is playing there game and not the Players actually experimenting with their own choices. I really do not know what is best, to much or not enough info , sometimes.

- - - -

A possible strategy; but may come back to bite you. With first contact, maybe if we give a new friendly or serine AI Player the copy of your Home System Charts, as a token. He may avoid your HS with a large force if it knows what it is, this may be worth a try if you find that the above scenarios may come into play
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It sounds like it might work, but you will not see me doing it

You may be pleasantly surprised, what a little diplomacy can do (YOU WAR MONGER Actually, what differences does it make in that scenario the AI was bound to enter your system anyway and much sooner then later.
- - - -

JLS, are you keeping the Change Bad Event Chance on the Relig. Culture Centers?

No decision yet, what are your thoughts when considering the Heroes Epic effects.
I personally would want as much decreased CBEC as possible in my Home Systems.

What would you do for example if you had a Fate Shrine, would you put a priority on it for your Home System?

= = = =

Reference
AIC Racial Abilities on its CC

Name := Population Center
Ability 15 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 15 Descr := Populations in Home System will reproduce faster.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 1
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0
Ability 16 Type := Combat Modifier - System
Ability 16 Descr := Defense of Home System is resolute and will receive a combat bonus to all ships and units.
Ability 16 Val 1 := 2
Ability 16 Val 2 := 0
Ability 17 Type := Component Repair
Ability 17 Descr := Orbital ship repair capability.
Ability 17 Val 1 := 1
Ability 17 Val 2 := 0

Name := Psychic Race Cultural Center
Ability 14 Type := Ship Training - System
Ability 14 Descr := Psychic Training Academy.
Ability 14 Val 1 := 2
Ability 14 Val 2 := 3
Ability 15 Type := Fleet Training - System
Ability 15 Descr := Ships and Fleets in this system will improve each turn.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 2
Ability 15 Val 2 := 2
Ability 16 Type := System Point Generation Modifier - Intelligence
Ability 16 Descr := University of Psychic Studies. Psychic intelligence generation from Home System incresed by 5%.
Ability 16 Val 1 := 5
Ability 16 Val 2 := 0

Name := Agrarian Cultural Center
Ability 14 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 14 Descr :=
Ability 14 Val 1 := 2
Ability 14 Val 2 := 0
Ability 15 Type := Plague Prevention - System
Ability 15 Descr := University of Organic Studies. Prevents level 2 plagues in this system. Agrarian Populations in the Home System will reproduce faster.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 2
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0

Name := Temporal Race Cultural Center
Ability 15 Type := System Point Generation Modifier - Research
Ability 15 Descr := Temporal College. All research in the Home System is increased by 5%.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 5
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0

Name := Crystal Race Cultural Center
Ability 15 Type := Shield Modifier - System
Ability 15 Descr := Transmission Center. The shield strength of all ships in the Home System starts at 30 shield points.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 20
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0

Name := Religious Cultural Center
Ability 15 Type := Planet Conditions Change - System
Ability 15 Descr := Religious Fate Seminary. Improved happiness of the populations and a decreased chance of any bad events in the Home System.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 1
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0
Ability 16 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 16 Descr :=
Ability 16 Val 1 := ?
Ability 16 Val 2 := 0
Ability 17 Type := Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System
Ability 17 Descr := Nature Conservatory. Increases the conditions of all planets in the Home System by 1% each year.
Ability 17 Val 1 := -5
Ability 17 Val 2 := 0
Ability 18 Type := Change Population Happiness - System
Ability 18 Descr :=
Ability 18 Val 1 := 2
Ability 18 Val 2 := 0

[ September 22, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: JLS ]