SEIV is being Pirated - Page 8

disabled · #71 August 30th, 2001, 05:09 PM

Intrusive advertising hasn't stopped commericial breaks from growing in length, telemarketing, and ezboard & geocities popups.

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HADRIAN T. AVENTINE
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geoschmo · #72 August 30th, 2001, 05:09 PM

quote:
Napster? No. You CAN use it for the same idea as warz, and THAT is bad, but napster itself it not. You might as well say the WWW is bad because it allows Warz sites..

The only reason you can see a difference between Napster and Warez is that you like Napster, and you don't like Warez. That's called situational ethics, and it's garbage.

The fact is, you aren't allowed to copy a song you bought and give it to someone who didn't. And you aren't allowed to receive a song you didn't buy from someone who did.

I understand their are technical differances between Napster and Warez. But if you were truthful, are those the reasons you support Napster? What if Napster was setup to allow "sharing" of software instead of music? Is it really the technical differences you are defending, or the content?

The fact that Napster doesn't actually hold the song at any time, and only makes it easier for the two of you to get together does not absolve them of any responsibility. And the fact that they profit from the theft makes them much more than a condiut. It makes them an active participant in the transaction.

Warez is a pawn shop, dealing in stolen goods. Napster is the same thing, without actually holding the inventory. All sales are on a "consignment", but Napster still gets their "cut" by selling advertising, and making it easy for theives and buyers to get together.

Geoschmo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 30 August 2001).]

Phoenix-D · #73 August 30th, 2001, 05:43 PM

quote:
The only reason you can see a difference between Napster and Warez is that you like Napster, and you don't like Warez. That's called situational ethics, and it's garbage.

Nope. I have over 50 MP3s on my hard drive. All legal. Notice I didn't say ethical- *legal*. Using Napster or a similar service to share *those* files is OK, using it to transfer, say, a work that ISN'T available for free is NOT.

See the difference? It's also difficult to keep said unethical trading off a setup like napster, since MP3s don't have "free yes/no" tag, and even if they did that could be easily changed. Filtering by titles has been attempted but doesn't work all that well.

To use your anaology, Warz is a parn shop, whereas Napster is more like a swap meet, or the guy the pawn shop pays the rent to. Responsible? Only in a roundabout sort of way.

Phoenix-D

LazarusLong42 · #74 August 30th, 2001, 05:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
The fact is, you aren't allowed to copy a song you bought and give it to someone who didn't. And you aren't allowed to receive a song you didn't buy from someone who did.

Except... except... people have been doing this for decades, first using reel-to-reel tapes (side note: my mother still has one of these machines), then using cassette tapes, and in the Last few years using CD-R/CD-RW. I don't think a single one of us can claim to have never made/accepted a mix tape.

Now, is such a mix tape legal? Hell... I'd be hard pressed to come up with an answer to that. There's the matter of enforcement of copyright, as well as the Fair Use clauses, and determining whether they apply here is shaky ground at best. But I think the record companies understnad that mix tapes are, in the end good for business, as they introduce people to more music.

Napster could be (could have been?) like this... but in the end it isn't. When people start using it to trade entire libraries of music, the "mix tape" concept falls through, and whether those were legal or not, Napster wouldn't make the cut.

LL

geoschmo · #75 August 30th, 2001, 06:04 PM

Please note I never said Napster isn't a good idea. Personally I think that it is the wave of the future for marketing and releasing music.

But it needs to be in control of the people actually producing the product that is being shared. They should be the ones getting the lions share of the profits from the system. Otherwise it's pirating. Plain and simple.

Geo

LazarusLong42 · #76 August 30th, 2001, 07:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
Please note I never said Napster isn't a good idea. Personally I think that it is the wave of the future for marketing and releasing music.

But it needs to be in control of the people actually producing the product that is being shared. They should be the ones getting the lions share of the profits from the system. Otherwise it's pirating. Plain and simple.

Geo

Bingo. And the final problem is determining whether the people in control should be the artists, or the media companies. Unfortunately for them, the artists have to fight that battle. (Though the Tasini et. al. v. New York Times decision might be found in later ludgments to apply to musicians as well. Could be interesting.)

LL

Saxon · #77 August 31st, 2001, 01:35 AM

On a related topic, those of you who would like to download Beowulf or other classics, check out the Gutenberg Library on the web. It is a free service where old texts are typed in a plain format, so anyone can download and enjoy them. They have gone through some pains to ensure that only legally distributable texts are on the site, so you don�t have to deal with the ethical struggles that this thread has been discussing! I pulled Sun Tzu�s Art of War off, it was a nice quite download.

Sorry, I don�t have the address handy, but you won�t get too many extra hits if you search for Gutenberg.

disabled · #78 August 31st, 2001, 01:43 AM

About Beowulf and other classic texts, they are public domain, even many translated forms, as the author(S) are all long gone and many of the thousands of translators are dead from old age of getting run down by the devil car running them down.

Only recent translations and commentary can be copyrighted and in the case of classics, you must prove you did not get it from newer services, which very easy if you go to a used book store.

Either way, I doubt anyone will solve the copyright issue in the next few decades. All I know is that I get radio access for free, but my cable TV bill is greater than my electric bill, and just about all forms of media entertainment (books, periodicals, shows, etc.) requirement payment except the radio.

------------------
HADRIAN T. AVENTINE
admin@spaceempires.org
Administrator | SpaceEmpires.org