WinSPMBTver3.0 Info

[DRG]

PlasmaKrab said:
Pardon for being a nitpick, but what about the BRMs? AFAIK even the early BRM-1K mounts a Tall Mike (PSNR-5) GSR, and that one dates back to 1976.
Right now all the pre-1990 BRMs in the Russian OOB have a vision of 30.

Well I hate the nitpick back at you but if you look you'll see that the BRM-1K isn't modeled in the game and the other "pre-1990 BRMs" are "stock" BRM's and the regular BRM's didn't have the Tall Mike radar as only one was issued, so equipped, per recce coy


IF I add a BRM-1K it will have the correct vision

Don

EDIT. I did a little digging and there seems to be some confusion ( what a surprise eh? ) One source say only the K model gets the radar and another says the K is the command vehicle and it's the The BMP M 1976(2) ( AKA BRM-1M ) is the one with the radar

" The BMP M 1976(2) model has a small parabolic antenna on the roof. One of these vehicles is assigned, along with three BMP-1s, to the reconnaissance company of a motorized rifle or tank regiment, and three of them are assigned to the reconnaissance battalion of a motorized rifle or tank division.

The BRM-1K (BMP M1976/2) Armored Reconnaissance Command Vehicle, derived from BMP-1, has a 2-man turret and additional sensors. Two manportable SAM launchers are included. BMP-1 options fit BRM-1 and -1K. Passengers may dismount from BRM-1K and will dismount from BRM-1 to form an alternate reconnaissance post."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/brm-1.htm

So, we appear to be "missing" the BRM-1M. We have the 2m and 3m versions in the game

Don ( end of edit )

[Kuklinovsky]

Hello "western" guys! I have bad news for you!

I have found that PRP-4 arty recon vehicle introduced 1984 HAD THERMAL IMAGER in addition to GSR radar! It is proof that USSR HAD thermal sight technology in 1980s! I am sure its further implementations on Soviet helos, UAVs and tanks will be also discovered sooner or later!

Here you are PRP-4 description taken from Worldwide Equipment Guide (WEG):

The hull of the PRP-4 is virtually identical to the BMP-1 although, as it has a different mission, the layout of the vehicle and roof hatches is very different.
The driver is seated front left with the power pack to his right and another crew member seated to his rear. Both have single-piece hatch covers and associated observation devices. The two-man power-operated turret is in the centre of the vehicle and is provided with two roof hatches, sensors and a single 7.62 mm PKT machine gun.

Optical devices are mounted on the forward part of the roof and in pods on either side of the turret.

Mounted in the rear of the turret is the 1RL133M-1 "Tall Mike" radar (operating band: I (9.0 GHz), detection range (personnel): 3.0 km, detection range (vehicle): 12 km) with a flat antenna that folds forwards when not operational.

The 1PN59 Thermal Imaging Night Vision Device (the 1PN71 model in PRP-4M) is mounted on the left side of the turret and has a target detection range of at least 3,000 m and a target recognition range of at least 2,000 m.

Mounted on the right side of the turret is the 1PN61 infrared night vision device with a detection range in the active mode of 2,500 to 3,000 m and 1,500 m in the passive mode.

To determine the range to targets, a 1D11M-1 periscope laser binocular rangefinder is also fitted in the right side of the turret. An ID13 laser rangefinder is carried inside the vehicle and deployed away from the vehicle when required.

Navigation equipment fitted includes course plotter KP-4, gyro course indicator 1G13 and gyrocompass 1G25-1.

Information processing and communications equipment fitted includes a 1V250 electronic calculator, an R-173 radio system and a 1A30M automatic command receiver.

The fifth crew member is seated in the rear and has a circular roof hatch that opens to the rear. The twin doors in the hull are retained but the vehicle does not have any firing ports.

As the PRP-4 has extensive communications equipment and other systems that need additional power, an auxiliary power unit is fitted as standard.

The PRP-4 retains the amphibious characteristics of the BMP-1 and is fitted with an NBC system as standard; it can also lay its own smoke screen by injecting diesel fuel into the exhaust outlet which is located on the right side of
the hull.

Specifications:

Crew: 5
Combat weight: 13,200 kg
Ground pressure: 0.60 kg/cm2
Length: 6.735 m
Width: 2.94 m
Height: 2.146 m
Ground clearance: 370 mm
Max speed:
(road) 65 km/h
(water) 7 km/h
Range:
(road) 550-600 km
Fording: amphibious
Engine: UTD-20 4-stroke diesel developing 300 hp
NBC system: yes
Night vision equipment: yes

[RVPERTVS]

DRG said:
WE never said they were going to be stripped out but that's how it got spun out of control. The HINDS prior to 1990 were the real issue. The ACRV-2 and PRP-2 and PRP-3 FO vehicles are unchanged. This is NOT, as some have implied, a "plot" to emasculate the Warsaw pact forces in the game. The POINT of it all was to bring the unit that were out of line, into reality and that, in 90% of the cases was various HINDs in various OOB's. Western OOB's were seached for units with Vision ratings higher than they should be for various time periods as well.
Don

Thanks for your reply Don, I knew since the begining that the discusion was about MBTs, it seems that MY confusion was regarding the vision 40 value, I didn´t know that it models TI and GSR alike .Everything is clear now.

Regards
Robert

[Kuklinovsky]

As for Hinds and TI: I suggest you to look closely at Mi-24K/Hind G-2 model!

[DRG]

Kuklinovsky said:
As for Hinds and TI: I suggest you to look closely at Mi-24K/Hind G-2 model!

Ya know buddy, I'm getting fed up with your attitude. If you have information to share then SHARE IT instead of working so very hard at being obnoxious. WHAT EXACTLY am I supposed to be "Looking closely" at this model for?

Here's what I have on it

"Mi-24K (korrektirovchik: corrector) ('Hind-G2'): As Mi-24R, but with large camera in cabin, f8/1,300mm lens on starboard side; six per helicopter regiment for reconnaissance and artillery fire correction; gun and B-8V-20 rocket pods retained. No target designator pod under nose; upward hingeing cover for IR sensor. About 150 built 1983-89. "

"Mi-24K reconnaissance artillery spotting helicopter intended for ground forces"

"Mi-24K (Hind-G2) : Army reconnaissance, artillery observation helicopter. "

THATS IT. ONE source says it has and IR sensor...NOT a TI sensor... a IR sensor. You have better info ? Great. Let's here what it is and where you found it.

Don

[DRG]

Kuklinovsky said:
Hello "western" guys! I have bad news for you!

I have found that PRP-4 arty recon vehicle introduced 1984 HAD THERMAL IMAGER in addition to GSR radar! It is proof that USSR HAD thermal sight technology in 1980s!

I see..... I have WEG as well. Please tell me where I can find in WEG the info that the PRP-4 ---with the equipment you listed--- was introduced in 1984. If not WEG then any other creditable source will do. I cannot find 1984 mentioned anywhere in WEG in relation to the PRP-4 and that equipment

What I DID find was ..."PRP-3/PRP-4: Artillery reconnaissance vehicle (see p. 6-3). ... Recently, thermal night sights have been introduced with thermal sights (FLIRs) ..."

"Recently" is an interesting word..........nothing about 1984 though. If you have something concrete please do share. I will be happy to ensure that the correct info gets into the game

Don

[Nox]

Kuklinovsky said:
I have found that PRP-4 arty recon vehicle introduced 1984 HAD THERMAL IMAGER in addition to GSR radar! It is proof that USSR HAD thermal sight technology in 1980s! I am sure its further implementations on Soviet helos, UAVs and tanks will be also discovered sooner or later!

Yes that vehicle would appear to be an exception assuming the sources you quoted are correct, but do you have any valid sourses indicating that tanks or attack helicopters of the Soviet Union were equiped whit a thermal imager devices before the 1990's? It is one thing to have thermal imager on a special Recon/FO vehicle than to have it standard on all Main Battle Tanks or Attack helicopters. It might have been that due to the cost of the devices and the Soviet tactics/regulations the devices were not used. It is not only a question if USSR had thermal imaging technology in the 1980's, but were they actualy installed and used on tanks/helos in the 80's. All information available seems to point that they were not.

Kuklinovsky said:
As for Hinds and TI: I suggest you to look closely at Mi-24K/Hind G-2 model!

What I found on the net points to Mi-24K (Hind-G2) being a special purpose reconisance/chemical warfare helicopter not used in large quantities, did not find any information that it had a thermal imager though. Even if it did have a thermal imager and was available in the 80's it would appear to fall into the same special purpose vehicle gategory whit the PRP-4.

[Marek_Tucan]

PRP-4M

Note that designation of PRP-4 variant with TI 1PN71 sight is PRP-4M/MU, that implies it definitely ISN'T basic version introduced in 1984 (besides started appearing on exhibitions in late 1990s). Basic PRP-4 was just equipped with better radar than PRP-3 (Tall Mike vs. Small Fred).
Also mentions of this sight (1PN71) started to appear only with BRM-3 recon vehicle, IE 1990's thing as well.

[Kuklinovsky]

Blah, blah, blah Tucano! Your thesis are in shambles so you start to jive! I suggest you to carefully read what I wrote before you begin your jabber.

It is obvious PRP-4 was introduced in 1984. It is also obvious it was equipped with 1PN59 thermal imager because it was the biggest difference between PRP-4 and PRP-3. Also it is obvious that later introduced PRP-4M vehicle had newer 1PN79 thermal sight. And none of your rubbish can change these basic facts.

Resume: Soviets HAD thermal technology in 1980s but they were reluctant to spread it wider across troops because they thought it wasn't necessary in the event of war with NATO in Europe. Also lack of money for TIs wasn't any kind of obstacle for Soviets. USSR always had plenty of cash on arms even at every other expense. That is why all these hidden suggestions that Soviets were shleppers or technologically backwarded savages are a piece of [censored]! But I am sure such suggestions are copasetic for US/UK teens!

PS. Though I try to create Mi-24K with TI in my OOBs, buddy! Western teens can't be allowed to rule on battlefield only because they can get AH-64D with visual set to...60!

[pdoktar]

Funny if you can rule the battlefield of WinSPmbt scale with a single helo, even if it would have vision of 99. Try to revise your tactics before revising the oobs..