War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

[LazarusLong42]

quote:

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Originally posted by Joss21:
I just don´t like americans that says "i´m full of morality" "we are the good guys" "we are the policeman of the world" and then when someone hits them react like an angry teenager, "you hurt my interests, then i will destrou you".

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A few things:

1. As I said, we're not bombing anyone yet. Remember that Afghanistan is undergoing a civil war still. As far as anyone can tell right now, they're bombing themselves (or each other, as the case may be called).

2. What do the police and the good guys do in movies, guys? As soon as the bad guys do somethign evil... they go after them. Bombing Afghanistan--if bin Laden and/or the Taliban are, in fact, the culprits--is a proportional, direct, and correct response.

Note: That's _if_ they're culpable. Also, I don't believe the Palestinians are culpable here--there've been no signs they are. They're just celebrating it.

LL

[Puke]

While I am in agreement with Natsef-Amun as well, I think that some of the basics about human nature are being overlooked.

Idealy, it would be very nice indeed to look at each person as an individual and make judgements accordingly. This is not always practical though. I think it is perticularly poignent that the EU is in the process for apologozing for imperalism, when it is the absense of imperalism that empowers decentralized forces to commit acts like this.

When world powers can be attacked without any nation taking responsibility, how can there be reprisal? Without reperations, how can there be a return to order without a threat of recurrance? So it is logical for people to dislike and blame those Groups whom express hatred for your own political ideas and culture. And it is unfortunate that innocent individuals get lumped into those Groups.

In general, US forign policy benefits the US people. If not the people, then it benefits US industry or commerce, which in turn benefits our people. It is a blanket generization (which you just got done condenming) to say that the average US citizen is ignorant of the impact of our forign policy. We are not ignorant, we merely support what anti-globalists call American-Imperialism. We know full well our policies are disrupting the well being of others, but at the same time they benefit our alies, and in turn benefit us.

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by LazarusLong42:
Note: That's _if_ they're culpable. Also, I don't believe the Palestinians are culpable here--there've been no signs they are. They're just celebrating it.

LL

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No kidding. I might not like them, but we screwed them over, and if I were them, Id be celebrating too. Its pretty darn silly to think they had anything to do with it. If they had that kind of resources, you think they would hit Israel.

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hadrian Aventine:
Those were not knifes. They was most likely islamic swords, the name escapes me

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quote:

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Ted Olson told CNN that his wife said all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers. The only weapons she mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters.

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sorry for the multiple Posts, but: swords my ***. how the hell is someone going to get a sword past airport security? even on a domestic flight. I get enough crap about the EYELETS on my BOOTS. we're a nation of fat, spineless, sheep. I would have at least given them enough credit to have used shanks the size of a shoe sole, but BOX CUTTERS?! give me a break!

as a side note, would that not really screw with the weight distribution of the plane to put all those people in the back? (especially if they are fat americans?) didnt some female pop singer just die on takeoff because her pilot didnt properly distribute the load of the aircraft?

[disabled]

I'm stunned at the failure of airport security.

I'm equally stunned at the fact we didn't see this coming.

I know that congress will hold joint session in the morning with any luck. Then we shall see if the Federal Union will previal.

[ June 13, 2003, 07:01: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[geoschmo]

Puke, keep in mind the people on the planes likely did not know what the terrorists had planned, until it was too late. This was totally unprecedented.

If you put yourself in the mind of the passangers and crew onboard, you are flying in an airplane with obviously unstable individuals in charge. They no douubt expected the plane to be landed somewhere and demands made, and eventually they would be freed. That's how it normally happens. But today the rules changed. Today the world changed. But the people onboard the planes couldn't know that at the time.

In fact we may find out that the reason the fourth plane crashed in penn. is because the passengers discovered via radio or cell phone what was going on and decided to rush the terrorists.

The people on board weren't sheep. They were scared. And they assumed the terrorists didn't want to die. Most people don't.

Geoschmo

[Kadste]

This is the most incredible event of my life, hell all of our lives! I am Canadian, but I work a lot in the US and I have many friends and relatives there and I still feel like it is some terrible nightmare. My heart is burdened with the extreme loss suffered by our best friends. There are no two countries in the world like us. We share so many common interests, beliefs and feelings that sometimes you cannot tell us apart. When I travel to the States, one of the biggest compliments that I receive is blending in. I feel at home in the States, just like in Canada. It is my second home.

Reasonable people do not do this. The cowardly bastards who did this will probably not have the balls to even admit it. It is one thing to make war against a countries military, but to attack innocent civilians is the lowest, most despicable act anyone could perpetuate.

Terrorism has been with us for many centuries and we have learned that it solves nothing. Acts like this against anyone is not acceptable and must be punished.

Most people will regard this as an act of terrorism. But is was not. It was an act of war. And as such, it must be treated as such.

Democracies like the US are very susceptible to acts like this. In a FREE country, individual freedoms and rights are fundamental. The dangers to a free country have always been balanced in favor of the individual rights and individual freedoms and as such an act like this can and obviously did happen. What will change now? Are we prepared to make the necessary changes to protect us against another act?

I travel through many airports throughout North America very frequently. While security is generally good, it is not as good as in countries that have suffered. In Canada, some leeway is given to members of religious sects to carry their ceremonial daggers on Canadian flights. I wonder if this the same in the US? The weapons were probably a the size of a knife, anything larger would be detected.

It is very hard for me to express myself now, my emotions are getting the better of me.


My heart goes out to all Americans,

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

[disabled]

I hope their deaths don't go unrepaid by the full might of the combined forces of the United States.

[ June 13, 2003, 07:02: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[Lord Kodos]

im from new york... my prayers for all who died in this terrible stupid attack i hope they all are punished by the fury of the sleeper

------------------
Some rule some serve
some declare wars some
fight them
i declare wars i rule
you serve you fight
wars.....
we are not the same.....
never forget that..

[Puke]

post deleted. i should pick my fights, and this is the wrong one at the wrong time. I will have to agree to disagree with Geo on this one.

indeed, this is a day that future generations will ask us about when they talk about it in school. That, and the Berlin wall. Well, for me anyhow. Those of you who lived thru Korea and Viet Nam might have a few more stories to tell.

[This message has been edited by Puke (edited 12 September 2001).]