[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Wardad]

Sometimes the weather does not cooperate. Blinding dust storms can hold up supply lines.
Meanwhile the troops need food and lots of water while they wait it out.
Waiting it out will unbalance the supplies, more ammo and fuel but less water and food.
The enemy did not cooperate either, and harrased the supply lines.

I thought the plan was flexible.
So if things go well, the forces can jump at an opportunity.
If there are problems, the forces can sit tight or regroup, and try again later.

I do not see a real screw up here. Of course, they wouldn't tell us if there was.

[ April 02, 2003, 23:05: Message edited by: Wardad ]

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Aloofi:

quote:

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Originally posted by DavidG:
Cover-up? It has already been reported that the platoon leader's commander tore a strip out of the guy for not firing the warning shot early enough. "You f--ing killed a family" he supposedly said.

Hahaha, do you really believe that?
That is just part of the cover-up!

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That would have to be the worst cover-up story I have ever heard.
Kinda like signing a confession to cover-up guilt.

[DavidG]

Seems like everyone and their Grandma has a complete copy of the US war plan. Can anyone tell me where I can get it? Might be a good read. Gee you'd think they'd have security for important things like that.

[Wardad]

Originally posted by DavidG:
Seems like everyone and their Grandma has a complete copy of the US war plan. Can anyone tell me where I can get it? Might be a good read. Gee you'd think they'd have security for important things like that.

It was on CNN Last night, and Jeraldo Rivera outlined it in the sand.

[Crazy_Dog]

Strains of war test the allies
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...d=1413&lang=en

Family deaths at checkpoint fuel fury and mistrust
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...d=1414&lang=en

Myers, Rumsfeld Lash Out at War Plan Critics
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...d=1391&lang=en

Iraq, Testing Ground for US Hi-tech Weapons
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...d=1395&lang=en

[tesco samoa]

Well they should be right now. A three pronged attack is under way.

I do not have a map to link to... But it will be worth dicussing.

[Thermodyne]

Well guys and gals, the cat is about to be out of the bag. First let’s note that the LA Times just got burned for using doctored photos on the front page. Photos that were altered to show the US military in a bad light, when in fact just the opposite was occurring. Now back to the cat; CNN and MS-NBC are not showing things as they are! These terrible battles that were going to kill Americans by the thousands are in fact human wave assaults. Why do they only say that these Guards divisions are just taken out? Why do they not show how one sided the fight really is? They started the war with a reporting plan of their own, and now they run stories about how FUBAR’d the Army’s plan has become. I think that the networks are the ones with FUBAR’d plan. A plan that they used in the sixties, and grew to love. Well this is not the sixties, and this is not a police action run by McNamara and Johnson from the White House. This is not McNamara trying to send Messages with measured escalation. This is a combined arms offensive such has not been mounted in the history of man.

Soldiers from the 3rdInf are reporting mass charges against their armor. They are describing seas of body parts, yes parts, knee deep. They are using dump body trucks to haul them away. Published kill numbers for the 3rd are less than 50 KIA and 8,000 to 10,000 Iraqis KIA. These guys are massing up and trying to over-run the US positions. 300 men at a time. What a waste, this in and of itself gives us a look at what Iraq had become. To throw away the Last of your Army like this indicates that they have no intention of achieving victory, it indicates that they are going to try to go out with glory. Perhaps glory in the eyes of their god, but dead is dead. And dead from charging M-1s and Bradley’s with RPG’s is just plain stupid. Personally, were I there, I would be cleaning the sand out of my NBC gear.

[Krsqk]

Thermo, I hate to say this, but:

Link, please?

I haven't heard any of this (not that I've caught any news since ~noon Wed.); and I'd like the opportunity to read it for myself.

That said, it does indeed appear much of the press had a predetermined idea of what would happen. Many of them cut their journalistic teeth on Vietnam, and would love to have that power and notoriety back. Unfortunately for them, it's not going to happen while ~75%+ of the Americans are for finishing what we started, which I think they're aware of.

[Askan Nightbringer]

Thermodyne, I just don't get it. I've never seen anything that ever hinted at a possible US loss. Was someone doubting that the US Army wasn't capabable of killing thousands upon thousands of Iraqis with little risk to their own? Remember Gulf War 1? Over 100,000 dead Iraqi soldiers to the loss of 148 on the US side. Tens of thousands of soldiers died while fleeing Kuwait along the highways to Basra, defenceless and systematically killed. At least when the soldiers are charging suicidally at US positions they're not getting shot in the back.

As for the journalists, who really gives a damn. I watched a bizzare US news program the other day (I think it was ABC) where some blonde host was aruging with an Al-Jazeer journalist, complaining about the bias of the coverage. He pointed out the bias of the American coverage and the arguement went on. I kept thinking three words, "pot", "kettle", "black".
They are all being fed lies from both sides, what really happened won't really be known for several years. Until then just read/watch your bias of choice and cheer your team on.

Askan

[rextorres]

Originally posted by Sinapus:

quote:

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Originally posted by rextorres:

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Originally posted by Sinapus:
The logistical train is catching up with the forward group. That's why they paused a few days ago.

It's not simply a matter of driving through a sector with a resupply depot, after all. (Or even fleeting 'tanker' ships with other ships.)

So your saying that they planned for the tanks to be 50 miles from Bagdad short on fuel and for the soldiers to get caught short on rations!?

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You've never studied logistics, or spoken with someone familiar with the subject, right?

Shortages are indeed expected. Same with maintenance failures on armored vehicles.

I'm not a logistical expert no, but it doesn't take a military genius to figure out that it was not intended that way and that it's not a good thing. We won't know why until it's all over, but my guess is the "unwargamed" militia is what has caused all the supply problems.

It seems to take an armchair general, sitting in front of a computer thousands of kilometers away from the front, who has an axe to grind to come to conclusions based on ignorance and what you think it should be like.

Even if the "unwargamed" militia hadn't shown up, they'd still have to pause periodically so the trucks carrying fuel, beans and ammunition could catch up. (Not to mention let the troops get some sleep.) Which, of course, would lead you to presume incompetence in the planners, right?

Btw, there's a wide gulf between "this was not in the plan" and ["WE'RE DOOMED, MAN! QUAGMIRED, MAN! SUPPLY LINE CUT, MAN!" "STAY CALM MOMMY, I MEAN, SQUAT!"]

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There is no point in being hostile - I assume I am getting the same news that you do and I've come up with different conclusions (unless of course you have insider information).

Okay then let's just say that they planned to run out of gas and supplies. How would you account for a plan that called for invading through Turkey - when the Turks didn't allow U.S. troops in the first war!? What about Iraqi nationalism!?

Also the reason that this war plan issue is big news in the first place is because the politicians are making such strong denials. They should have just admitted that they didn't account for some things and moved on.