What did I missed from Dom I.? -> DIPLOMACY! - Page 9

st.patrik · #81 October 16th, 2003, 04:46 PM

I also agree that Illwinter should make a robust SP game, whatever they do in MP. But the thing that gets me is that some of the fanatically SP players are wanting Illwinter to add complex diplo with the AI, when if you just play MP you get way better diplo, because it's with an intelligent, sentient person. It just seems to me that if you want to interact with other nations diplomatically, MP is perfect for you! I just don't understand why people would be staunchly against MP, and yet vocal about adding diplo - which at best poorly mimics the MP experience. It makes no sense to me.

Kristoffer O · #82 October 16th, 2003, 04:49 PM

Actually I spend a lot more time MP than SP. In SP an average turn takes a fraction of the time spent in a normal MP game and I play more MP games than SP games. SP games tend to be long and tedious with turns made quickly and badly. But thats me

MStavros · #83 October 16th, 2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
but I do think that improvements to SP typically wind up as improvements to MP while the contrary is not nearly as true.

I agree.
MP diplomacy? Well it is not diplomacy, what we have now, it is only player interaction.
A nice well designed diplomacy system would be a great addition, it is pointless to argue about this.
If IW will be able to add it, well than do not hesitate, start working on it . The majority of the players would like to see a diplomacy system. We all know, that the most important thing is what the customer wants.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Actually I spend a lot more time MP than SP. In SP an average turn takes a fraction of the time spent in a normal MP game and I play more MP games than SP games. SP games tend to be long and tedious with turns made quickly and badly. But thats me

Yes it is you. You prefer MP, that is all.

[ October 16, 2003, 15:54: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Taqwus · #84 October 16th, 2003, 05:18 PM

Regarding my earlier ideas -- yeah, I think it'd be hard for the AI to make use of them. For multi, 'tho, they would tend to either make things easier (e.g. sharing province info without typing hordes of individual Messages, and having it associated with that province) or allowing things that are simply impossible now (free passage).

One simpler, if weird idea for multi would be geographical Messages. For instance, what if somebody could send a message attached to a given province? "I'll be attacking here", "Go ahead, it's yours", et al. Buttons could be used to automatically "type in" (so it could be

) hm, army estimates; province information; maybe sites and dominion report?

A far more extreme Version would allow players to send mostly-transparent map overlays to each other, but that'd require a paint program!) (Or, allow an easy way to export maps/import overlays for sending).

st.patrik · #85 October 16th, 2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MStavros:
MP diplomacy? Well it is not diplomacy, what we have now, it is only player interaction.

lol - what do you think diplomacy is, if interaction between humans doesn't count?

If what you're wanting is a system wherein you give the AI what it wants and it does what you want, and you just have to figure out the formula for how it works - that's not diplomacy! It's just another way to abuse the AI in SP.

st.patrik · #86 October 16th, 2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taqwus:
Regarding my earlier ideas -- yeah, I think it'd be hard for the AI to make use of them. For multi, 'tho, they would tend to either make things easier (e.g. sharing province info without typing hordes of individual Messages, and having it associated with that province) or allowing things that are simply impossible now (free passage).

One simpler, if weird idea for multi would be geographical Messages. For instance, what if somebody could send a message attached to a given province? "I'll be attacking here", "Go ahead, it's yours", et al. Buttons could be used to automatically "type in" (so it could be ) hm, army estimates; province information; maybe sites and dominion report?

A far more extreme Version would allow players to send mostly-transparent map overlays to each other, but that'd require a paint program!) (Or, allow an easy way to export maps/import overlays for sending).

I like this much more. It seems to me that ideally you should be able to send other players anything that you could send in real life warfare - which would include maps, statistics, etc.

Of course, on the other hand, if the other player has to rely on your account of those things, then it brings in the whole element of disinformation, etc., which is an important part of diplomacy.

MStavros · #87 October 16th, 2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:

quote:
Originally posted by MStavros:
MP diplomacy? Well it is not diplomacy, what we have now, it is only player interaction.

lol - what do you think diplomacy is, if interaction between humans doesn't count?

If what you're wanting is a system wherein you give the AI what it wants and it does what you want, and you just have to figure out the formula for how it works - that's not diplomacy! It's just another way to abuse the AI in SP.

Dude we are talking about SP diplomacy. Wake up.

DominionsFan · #88 October 16th, 2003, 05:51 PM

Errrrrrrrr I always tought that were talkin about SP diplomacy! I mean in MP the players can do what they want, but in SP, we need a diplomacy system.
Talking about MP diplomacy making no sense to me.
[We always had player interaction, LOL

]

Endoperez · #89 October 16th, 2003, 06:24 PM

You can also do diplomacy by sending the maps/whatever you have and some comments, to the one you believe is your ally, outside of the game. And you can lie as much as you want, and even edit the maps' information if you know how to use paint... The only greater problem is that you have to know your co-players e-mail address. E-mail because normal mail might get too expensive, and is quite a bit slower.

About SP diplomacy, it might be good addition but it might be too much.
The AI would have to check how strong your dominion is, what scales you have, might your dominion with quite a few negative scales be pushed towards its lands by stealhy preachers, check your every battle or keep book of its provinces to be sure you don't have a theme that hurts it, and everything else that human player might come up with...
Just try to list everything AI should take into account, and you might have a glimpse about how hard coding a decent AI for DomII is. Not that I have even that, of course.

Zerger · #90 October 16th, 2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Endoperez:
About SP diplomacy, it might be good addition but it might be too much.
The AI would have to check how strong your dominion is, what scales you have, might your dominion with quite a few negative scales be pushed towards its lands by stealhy preachers, check your every battle or keep book of its provinces to be sure you don't have a theme that hurts it, and everything else that human player might come up with...
Just try to list everything AI should take into account, and you might have a glimpse about how hard coding a decent AI for DomII is. Not that I have even that, of course.

Well, if Illwinter can script a good AI for diplomacy....than I don't know that what is the problem with adding a diplo system.