MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Mark & Don I believe I have an article or two to support this, unfortunately, I'm still on vacation and can't access my files. Will be home tomorrow and will check them once we're unpacked and settled in.

Regards,
Pat

Why wait!?!

The Diplomat reported on an article dated 02Jan2019 that the Chinese "MND" held a press conference on 27Dec2018 that the tank had gone into service earlier that month. I'll post that story tomorrow along with what I have if related to this situation.

Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First off I already had/have this on my list for submission as I'm still in the Patch Post submission mood.

As usual with these things of "One thing leads to another."-again!?!, there's another associated Chinese tank issue to be addressed.

I've come to the conclusion based on these refs and couple of others, that DEC 2018 should be the START date for the TYPE 15/ZTQ-15 these are interchangeable designations we ourselves have them in the game both ways which now makes me wonder if there are not duplicate tanks in the OOB.

I have not looked into this and quite frankly at this point I really, really don't want to for what I might find.

There are too many questions still lingering at this point such as Ammo loadout in general and it's also capable of firing an ATGW but, does have it/or carry it?

1. What I know is we'll need two models, a "light" and "heavy" version. In other words one w/o Composite add on armor and ERA and one with it.

2. It carries a 105mm HP MG and will fire Hybrid and Standard rounds/35mm GL turret mounted next to the MG and a 12.7mmMG.

3. It does have APS.

4. Concerning TI/GSR I feel 40 as minimum but, leaning towards 45.

5. FCS/STABILZER will be improved based I what I feel the is the final best TI/GSR number for submission and as compared against their newest models in the game. It has to reflect "Apples to Apples" in the end.

6. This is a light tank and the armor should be treated accordantly being around 30-35 tons. It will be fast, but, how fast I'm not settled on as the engine sizes go from 750 - 1200hp for Chinas tank, and NOT VT-5 export version for engine size as of now.

7. Bottom-line, officially China as normal, isn't being to forth coming on any of it's military equipment.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/chin...htweight-tank/
https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/chin...ection-system/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/augu...on_system.html

The last is to establish ascendency on where Army Recognition checked it's sources with. A note on the Editor/Writer the name sounded very familiar to me and I couldn't quite place it until this morning. Many of you from my earlier days here might remember a website I used from Germany that beat JANE's to the punch among others in the Defense Industry News business, DEF News. He's that guy and there never was an issue with their work we ever found. They just couldn't in the end compete (For advertising money.) with the one's I use now. One of the last stories they reported on ahead of the others was England getting rid of their GR.8/9 HARRIERS.. The links are still shown throughout the treads, but of course, the links are now dead.

Establishing prominence is all.

So I'm looking at the related articles and came across the next ref. I read it of course and found after looking elsewhere (OOB), we seem to be missing two tanks, the TYPE 96A/ZTZ-96A (2nd GEN) and the newest (As of 2016.) version TYPE 96B/ZTZ-96B (3rd GEN).

Now I typed in all of the above and came up with nothing. I did see UNIT 038 TYPE 96G, to be truthful, I haven't had a chance to determine if this is a specialized "Command" version or other.

If not, I have my TYPE 96A/ZTZ 96A start point.

And finally, and if true there's more work here, well I'll just quote from the below ref...
“The PLA will use it to replace the old tanks such as the Type-59 and Type-69 models.” The PLA operates over 5,000 Type 59 and Type-69/79 models of all variants, manufactured. Again this ref from 2016.
https://thediplomat.com/2016/08/meet...ew-tank-force/

And if you're counting, China became the largest single tank owner in 2016/2017.

Well I'm going to enjoy what's left of this evening and said "screw it" to going back to work tomorrow to be with you know who instead.

Only worked 2 days last week and will only work 3 days this week. man life's good and I'm just going to ease my way back into it!!?!!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Pat
Two things in one parapraph

1. that DEC 2018 should be the START date
2. for the TYPE 15/ZTQ-15 these are interchangeable designations we ourselves have them in the game both ways which now makes me wonder if there are not duplicate tanks in the OOB.

1/ Dec 2018 had already been changed by me when this issue was first raised based on the info provided

2/ There was no ZTQ-15 in the Chinese OOB until I changed units 47 and 48 to reflect that ZTQ-99 was incorrect......there also is no "Type 15" in the Chinese OOB or any other OOB and the same thing goes for the ZTQ-15 except in my master OOB so how could "we have them in the game both ways" when no one but me has my master OOB's

???

If you are going to say things like that you need to include the unit number of the unit and the nation you are referring to

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

2/ There was no ZTQ-15 in the Chinese OOB until I changed units 47 and 48 to reflect that ZTQ-99 was incorrect......there also is no "Type 15" in the Chinese OOB or any other OOB and the same thing goes for the ZTQ-15 except in my master OOB so how could "we have them in the game both ways" when no one but me has my master OOB's

???

Nice to hear you're only human after all

P.S.
Dealing with as many OOB/units as you do I'm still in awe of your LACK of mistakes/typos.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I see I'll have to go about this in a different manner.

First off I'm fully aware that the TYPE-15/ZQT-15 is not in the OOB. This is why I put my 7 points/issues out there for it's later submission. Though I did see the "naming error" for them in the OOB. And 3/4 of those points would still be valid based on what I saw.

Secondly my search was first related to finding out whether or not both or either of these following where in the OOB the TYPE-96A/ZTZ-96A and TYPE-96B/ZTZ-96B. They were not and as I indicated would need to be addressed.

Thirdly during the my search for the above, is when I noticed that in the Chinese OOB we have tanks listed as TYPE or ZTZ followed by their number and letter designation. As soon as you open the OOB you can't miss this. They should all be TYPE whatever as explained in more detail below. I'm NOT suggesting this be changed, but it would be more accurate.

So my concern was whether or not there was a possibility of duplicates in the OOB because of the TYPE and ZTZ designations being "criss- crossed" for the same tank.

By example is there both a ZTZ-99A and a TYPE-99A in the OOB?

If so, for "the sake of argument" there was one, it would 1) Be confusing to a player and if you will the AI as these both would be the same tank! 2. Simply a duplicate to be removed.

Chinese designations goes as follows...
TYPE = A specific weapon/model from a tank down to even personal weapons in the case of the Chinese. I.E. TYPE-99A MBT.

ZTZ/ZQT/PHZ/VT = Designate the weapon system as a whole (And there are several more but, these are the most important to us.) so ZTZ = Med./Heavy Tanks/ZQT = Light Tanks/PLZ = Self Propelled Artillery/VT = Export armor.

PLA uses TYPE and I strongly suspect the ZTZ designation is more a industry (Including on some defense sites in reporting initially.) one for development through acceptance by MND and the PLA.

Instead of ZTZ, Russia uses "OBJECT ###" before it gets it's T-## designator once accepted.

In the three refs. from the "Diplomat" in my last post, TYPE always was ahead of ZTZ/or ZQT or whatever.
In the following ref(s) you'll see the Chinese tanks identified as TYPE-## and VT/MBT-3000 (No longer called this it is just VT-4 now.) for export.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks.htm
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/China.php
https://www.militaryfactory.com/armo...tary-tanks.asp
https://armyrecognition.com/china_ch..._11408171.html
https://www.defencetalk.com/al-khali...-market-16471/

Japan and Taiwan do the same thing by TYPE.

Hopefully I've clarified my concerns from my last post.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

[b]
By example is there both a ZTZ-99A and a TYPE-99A in the OOB?

No and as of 5 minutes ago there are no ATZ ( etc ) either

[Suhiir]

Fast,

I'll let you determine if this guy knows what he's talking about, but he seems to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOc_...ist=WL&index=9

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I believe the video definitely "paints" a pretty accurate picture of the T-90 series overall. I have my Daughter and Family getting here in a few minutes from Va., but I'll have more to say about that video in a few days but, mostly to do about the T-90M and how it'll affect the ARMATA.

I'll just say there's a new "top dog" in the Russian Army and it won't be the ARMATA.

Thanks again that video was a good show!

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Oh they'll probably have a few ARMATAs around to show off. But as a primary (in terms of numbers) MBT, I'd agree it'll be something else.

I sorta think of the ARMATA as a Russian King Tiger.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Where to start?

I guess I'll tackle the T-14 ARMATA first. The good news thus far anyway, is that we should see this tank before games end. The bad news is Russia will be nowhere near the 2300 units it desired in a defense review I believe from the Summer of 2014. Planned production was to have run from 2015 - 2019. The ARMATA should have or is about to start the OPEVAL around this time. A total of 100 will be built.

One must remember and as I submitted for the last patch a date change for the M1A2 SEP3 (It's just easier to remember it that way at this time.) an article from the USA that reported that the MBT was 3.5 years into it's OPEVAL and still going on at this point (Earlier in the year (Winter?) as posted it was deployed to Europe for further testing and coordination of Ops with our and NATO units.

As I'm in the habit of pointing out at times it was more about money, developmental and other technical issues and finally the sanctions imposed on Russia after it invaded the Crimea in Ukraine.

I was going to recommend a date change to JAN 2022 but, I see Don has changed it to JUN 2021 which is a good date I feel for what it's worth. Concur with the same for the T-15 as well.

It will "posted" with "1st Guards Tank Regiment of 2nd Guards Tamanskaya Motor Rifle Division, garrisoned in Moscow and part of Russia’s Western Military District." That means home defense of MOSCOW.

The only issue I see and I'm putting in this thread vice the APC one for now, is because these refs. refer to it in the T-14 discussion. Serious consideration should be made for adding a T-15 with the 57mm MG. This looks to be how the main variant will be armed. I already posted on this I'm pretty sure in the APC Thread and as I indicated again, it's in these refs. as well.

I hope you'll take the time to click on the links within these articles as I have, for perspective and a better understanding of the "big picture".

I now remember the German website this editor/writer (The Diplomat) ran in my earlier days of posting this "stuff" and some might remember it as well, DefPro.com may it RIP.

I'll try to get these in date order...
https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/russ...n-battle-tank/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/augu...perations.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...n_service.html
(The trials were delayed a year, until now as already noted.)
https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/russ...rials-in-2019/

What's going to be their most capable tank in the field? I first posted on this MBT late in 2017 or early in 2018 I believe, having first been spotted participating in a Russian exercise. The T-90M which I've been watching from the start. It is currently still in trials so a date change will be required.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/july...uisitions.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...res_video.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...sian_army.html
(From the ref. Dated FEB 2018, "According to the Russian Company Uralvagonzavod, the latest modernization of the main battle tank T-90, called T-90M will enter in service with the Russian army in the next few months.")
https://thediplomat.com/2019/03/russ...rials-in-2019/
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...ew-t-90m-tank/
(This last ref. from this past SEP. indicates the Russian Army did not receive it's first T-90M until JUN 2019.)
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25...y#.Xav6qm5Fzoo
(This ref. SEP 2019 is saying they just got their first one in SEP.)

This is why I to love OOB work because "a good time will be had by all", if not, there will be consequences for all in involved. Fun is mandatory around here. All others "need not apply".
and of course !!!!!!

I recommend new START DATE: RUSSIA/T-90M/UNIT 059/START JUN 2020 vice OCT 2018.// This should get the job done, hopefully.

Pics:


Regards,
Pat