MP: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins!

[Septimius Severus]

Squirrel, if it is not a bug or bug related to these rollbacks what exactly are you suggesting it is? A Server error? Cheating?

Team ACGHHS. I've stated my opinion/resolve that we not do another rollback right now (lest we cause further issues or get mired down). Let's see what happens next turn and if this behaviour occurs again.

However, if you guys want and to be fair, Chris can send me a PM on behalf of your team I will open an offical poll on our team forum. That is the only way I know to decide this in the absence of confirmation by Gandalf of a specific server error. I am sorry guys but I am just the admin and don't handle server errors if this is one of them. I'm willing to eat my own issue just for peace and expediency sake.

Come now, we've been through too much together.

[DrPraetorious]

Wasn't Chrispedersen in Kingmaker? Or one of that series of all-age megagames? Every one of them had a rule to prevent this from happening. So anyone who was in any of those games (and this certainly includes the vet advisors if it doesn't include the vets) should know that there is an inbox limit.

There *should be* a rule in effect, in all large games, against trying to jam the inbox of an opposing player with crap (i.e., sending them 20 slave collars) to prevent them from moving items between allies. I just noticed that we don't have such a rule here - sending unsolicited items to members of an opposing team is an exploit and we should not allow it, and we should institute a rule against it.

That said, it's a well known exploit among anyone who played in any of the megagames. The exact hows and whyfores are only known by a few people (I think Hadrian did a study?), but this game has a lot of undocumented quirks, incl. the way movement works when two armies try to attack one another, for example. I'm sorry if people don't know all the quirks to the game, but as a *matter of principle* we cannot have rollbacks for people who don't know the quirks. You're right that the quirks aren't well documented and it isn't fair that you weren't told about them. Suck it up.

That said, best practice would be to post a poll on doing another rollback. I'm pretty sure the vote would be "no" but if you guys insist on this, I agree with Sept that we should post a poll.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Stagger Lee

You know, when I posted that thread last week - the one about the rollback that screwed up so many things and was turning a fun newbie game into a miserable chore - some of you were kind enough to answer with sage advice and lent the benefit of your years of experience just to help me.

And now, you're reenacting a soul-sapping rollback here, one can only assume for my benefit alone! Thank you for showing a poor noob how it should be done!

Yes, I know I was more or less okay with the first rollback we did, although really, a stale turn is not that big of a deal most turns. Personally I would have just eaten it. This one is... eh... we can't all seem to agree on what sort of error it is. I would rather have rolled back this turn in a way, because I think it's probably had more negative impact on the player in question. Rolling back BOTH turns in such a close timeframe is really grating on my nerves. I personally do not like rollbacks, both because they can bring up a lot of issues and because they also are good time wasters :P


I should have known when the turn hosted so quickly it was too good to be true.

[GrudgeBringer]

I joined this game because I wanted to learn from some of the best players in the game. All are well respected, and amaze me with the info at their fingertips on any question I would want to ask.

As Stagger Lee said, we just went thru this in a somewhat noob game called D+G (David and Goliath)as we have a mixture of semi vets and semi noobs.

We had to roll back twice as weird things were happening and finally got it right (one guy Lost a Capitol, got it back and lost it agian).

There was no poll, argument, or anger. They all just wanted to know how to fix it right and get on with it...which we did and everyone seems happy as there has not been one complaint.

I am disappointed that there is such a uproar over a Bug (or non-bug), and we have spent more time arguing over what we should do than it would take to roll the d*** thing back, tell everyone what the problem is and get on with it.

Ya know, if you take 10 kids and give them a ball and leave them alone....they will chose sides and make their own rules that even out the playing field for both sides.

I only say this because it seems that winning is more important than playing this game. And everybody is looking at everyone else like they are cheating or perhaps using tactics that are known to some but not others.

Well, the roll backs didn't affect me in one way or the other, and I am OK with another rollback. Is it because I am on that team? I submit that you look at my 'Friends list' I have only asked 1 of those to be a friend. The rest have asked me as I NEVER..EVER break my word in a game, even if I have to sit there and just click a turn because I am hemmed in.

I am disappointed that the people I admire most in this game don't have the sense those 10 kids have, and winning is more important than playing and perhaps teaching some of us how to be better.

I resign from this game effective yesterday, not because of my team, and not because of all of your bickering. I resign because you guys have forgotten how to make rules that even the playing field for all those 10 kids. If getting this good in this game makes me like this, then I will continue to ask my friends the questions i need to ask and stay with the semi noobs.

Thank you gentlemen for the lesson and good luck to all of you

[Gandalf Parker]

Personally I play mostly solo. On 3 different servers. I dont think there is a single long-running game that doesnt show some quirk. Even ones that crash the game during hosting (knock on virtual wood).

There is apparently some advantage to only playing blitzes for some people. The game ends with no quirks..

As for people who wish to leave I have no problem with that.
I tend to think to myself how interesting it will be when they start a game and manage it.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by DrPraetorious

Wasn't Chrispedersen in Kingmaker? Or one of that series of all-age megagames? Every one of them had a rule to prevent this from happening. So anyone who was in any of those games (and this certainly includes the vet advisors if it doesn't include the vets) should know that there is an inbox limit.

There *should be* a rule in effect, in all large games, against trying to jam the inbox of an opposing player with crap (i.e., sending them 20 slave collars) to prevent them from moving items between allies. I just noticed that we don't have such a rule here - sending unsolicited items to members of an opposing team is an exploit and we should not allow it, and we should institute a rule against it.

That said, it's a well known exploit among anyone who played in any of the megagames. The exact hows and whyfores are only known by a few people (I think Hadrian did a study?), but this game has a lot of undocumented quirks, incl. the way movement works when two armies try to attack one another, for example. I'm sorry if people don't know all the quirks to the game, but as a *matter of principle* we cannot have rollbacks for people who don't know the quirks. You're right that the quirks aren't well documented and it isn't fair that you weren't told about them. Suck it up.

That said, best practice would be to post a poll on doing another rollback. I'm pretty sure the vote would be "no" but if you guys insist on this, I agree with Sept that we should post a poll.

DrP: Everyone knows that you should not be allowed to overfill an opponents inbox.

You have to be making a conscious decision to misrepresent what the argument is about.

This isn't about sending 50+ items to an enemy, and having a policy to prevent that.

In a single player game it is no longer even possible (apparently) to guarantee over filling an opponents box.

As soon as you click on an item to send to a team member, (in excess of 20) the item vanishes, and even deleting the messages will not return it to you.

This is about sending 23 or 25 or 27 items, gems, or text messages, and having the items and gems *disappear*.

So for example if you send 5 types of gems to team member A, 2 items, slaves, and a text message, and slaves, 4 types of gems, 2 messages, and 7 items to team member b

---->items go away<-----

And no, frankly, after hearing you moan about luck events we're not just going to suck it up. Practise what you preach.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Squirrel, if it is not a bug or bug related to these rollbacks what exactly are you suggesting it is? A Server error? Cheating?

Its a game bug related to the message system that has an undocumented limit on the number of messages (parcels? whatever) you send, provides no warning that you have reached that limit, deletes further sent objects from the game without even bothering to tell you, and happily lets you continue to choose the 'send gems/items/etc..' action in the message screen.

I would class this as a severe gameplay bug.

[Gandalf Parker]

It does seem to allow you to make more messages beyond the limit.
The only warning is that the counter on that menu stops at 20 without advancing when you make messages above that.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

It does seem to allow you to make more messages beyond the limit.
The only warning is that the counter on that menu stops at 20 without advancing when you make messages above that.

What is this limit? Nowhere is there a mention about message limits.

Thats really better phrased as:

It really does seem be a bug. It does delete all items, messages, and slaves sent in excess of 20.

[Gandalf Parker]

Its there on the screen when you make the messages. When you send a message it says "1 message sent". It will say that up to 20. On the 21st message it wont increment saying it sent the message. Go ahead and test it now (then delete all messages before accidentally hitting end)

I agree that isnt very clear but Im not sure if it would be best to call it a bug if you want to post about it in the stickies.
It would be safest to call it a wishlist item and request that Johan have it not delete items that dont get delivered.