MP: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins!

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by GrudgeBringer

I joined this game because I wanted to learn from some of the best players in the game. All are well respected, and amaze me with the info at their fingertips on any question I would want to ask.

As Stagger Lee said, we just went thru this in a somewhat noob game called D+G (David and Goliath)as we have a mixture of semi vets and semi noobs.

We had to roll back twice as weird things were happening and finally got it right (one guy Lost a Capitol, got it back and lost it agian).

There was no poll, argument, or anger. They all just wanted to know how to fix it right and get on with it...which we did and everyone seems happy as there has not been one complaint.

I am disappointed that there is such a uproar over a Bug (or non-bug), and we have spent more time arguing over what we should do than it would take to roll the d*** thing back, tell everyone what the problem is and get on with it.

Ya know, if you take 10 kids and give them a ball and leave them alone....they will chose sides and make their own rules that even out the playing field for both sides.

I only say this because it seems that winning is more important than playing this game. And everybody is looking at everyone else like they are cheating or perhaps using tactics that are known to some but not others.

Well, the roll backs didn't affect me in one way or the other, and I am OK with another rollback. Is it because I am on that team? I submit that you look at my 'Friends list' I have only asked 1 of those to be a friend. The rest have asked me as I NEVER..EVER break my word in a game, even if I have to sit there and just click a turn because I am hemmed in.

I am disappointed that the people I admire most in this game don't have the sense those 10 kids have, and winning is more important than playing and perhaps teaching some of us how to be better.

I resign from this game effective yesterday, not because of my team, and not because of all of your bickering. I resign because you guys have forgotten how to make rules that even the playing field for all those 10 kids. If getting this good in this game makes me like this, then I will continue to ask my friends the questions i need to ask and stay with the semi noobs.

Thank you gentlemen for the lesson and good luck to all of you

I hope you are not directing this at me. Because my dislike of the rollback has nothing to do with wanting to win (actually I am the least competitive person in the entire world). It does, however, have everything to do with having an irrational hatred of rollbacks having seen the drama and issues they create in almost every game that they're given in.

I don't think anyone else is complaining about a rollback because they want to win either. Rollbacks are just bad business.

Originally Posted by ChrisPedersen

And no, frankly, after hearing you moan about luck events we're not just going to suck it up. Practise what you preach.

Eh? Sure, we've complained about losing luck events, but I don't see how that's relevant. We have never asked for a rollback because a rollback removed a very nice lucky event, or destroyed one of our really nice units. Dr P, for example, on the first rollback had a particularly good commander diseased by rain of toads which didn't affect it the first time around. I guess I just don't understand what this is about.


And for the record, I too have been significantly losing interest in this game, due in no small part to the rollbacks :P

[GrudgeBringer]

If you reread the post I just sent I think you will see that I am NOT singling out anyone. I am just disappointed that all this we are going thru goes on at the level of play that you super vets play at.

It doesn't go on in the lower games for the most part, but we don't know all the ins and outs like you guys do.

I think everyone is losing interest for one reason or another and I feel sorry for Sept and all those who worked so hard to put this together. But if you look back at this game we have had defections from some pretty heavy hitters as well as some lower on the totem pole.

Why....No idea, unless its the stress of the captains having to make sure we actually do listen to them and do amount of work put in each turn. And then have to roll it back.

I like my team and for the most part am in other games with each of them. I just don't like all the bickering between players as I also play with a bunch of them and we have good relationships which I will not allow to be torn apart because of a game I really don't understand. ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS LEARN ABOUT THIS GAME, I already know how to B**** about things.

[DrPraetorious]

I also think we are devoting far too much verbiage to this. Since it's clear that we're not going to have a rollback (thank G-d), we can move on.

And since we're here to learn about the game, we've learned: do not send more than 20 things to any player in any turn, or the excess will be lost. Coordinate this among teammates as needed.

[Gandalf Parker]

I can see where this might have caught some people off guard. If you dont use messaging in solo games, and it rarely comes up in such numbers in blitz MP games. But learning MP is at least in part this games initial descript.

[Septimius Severus]

Regarding any use of exploits, I doubt and would hope that no one has engaged in this sort of behaviour (stuff labs, etc). If winning is that important to you, hey you've got other issues going on, whether I've posted this or not.

The primary focus of this game is learning. Noobs learning by playing alongside of and against more experienced players. Winning is good but hey I just want to have fun, and frankly I have been having great fun and learning a great deal. Let's not let the lust for victory get the best of us or complain about possible bugs that may well be beyond our control.

I would call upon everyone to not act hastily and to honour the spirit of Baalz's pledge that you play till the end or at least stay in till a replacement can be found for you or your team concedes, dom3 bug or no.

If it were a server issue, that is a different story and we have tried to address them when they have occured.

We have completed the first stage in the game (expansion and conquering of the AI). The second stage is really only now beginning and promises to be the most fun and doubtless the most contentious part of the game. Teams will either die or concede at this point on.

I don't think it justifiable to call the game a draw over something that may or may not be a bug or limitation in Dom3, known or unknown. It is certainly not something I planned on or can really deal with. If it were a server issue or cheating, that is a different story. But failing that one team or another will have to be declared victor in this game in the end.

I have offered a poll of the players, that is the only fair thing I can think of doing. The team or player in question may say, well that is not fair, the truth is there are 16 players in the game and three other teams, we must let everyone decide.

Failing that, if a neutral expert on Dom3 bugs is available and willing to examine the .trn and last turns .2h files and reach a judgement I will allow this as well.

Hell, I'd even give gold to the team if I though it might stop the grumbling (rightly or wrongly, deservedly or not).

Let's keep our discussion constructive. If team ACGHHS simply refuses to continue or let this thing go and really wants to concede over such a thing, or won't agree to the above 2 measures, then there will be no rollback and the game will continue till the victory conditions as stated are met.

I may delay the current turn at my discretion and depending upon the response I receive from what I have stated. In the meantime, as for me, I'm checking in on my team's forum and playing my turn as usual just in case.

[rdonj]

Huh? As far as I know, grudgebringer is the only one who was talking about resigning. Is team ACGHHS seriously considering resigning over this rollback discussion?

Grudge - I didn't mean the post, I just meant the sentiments.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by rdonj

Huh? As far as I know, grudgebringer is the only one who was talking about resigning. Is team ACGHHS seriously considering resigning over this rollback discussion?

Grudge - I didn't mean the post, I just meant the sentiments.

Apparently, Yes, I've received a concession PM from Chris on behalf of his team. That is why I have posted this last message. I am asking team ACGHHS to consider my last post above/reconsider and send me a confirmation. Once I receive a confirmation, it will be final. I have provided and done all that I can do in the above post.

[GrudgeBringer]

Rdonj,

NO, I wasn't directing the post at you or anybody specifically for that matter.

It just seems that for the few hours I have to play this game and all the time it takes to do these turns, that one little mistake amonst players of this caliber can mean complete chaos for you and your team.

It is that chaos that has seemed to make this game a chore from all sides.

You know, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head who is on who's team and who has quit for one reason or another.

Dr. P, thank you for pointing out that I really have learned something valuble (besides what Chris and Squirrel have taught me about micro management and what it can do) to take with me into other games.

Thanks Sept for all the hard work, I hate to see your plans go awry because of a game.

Maybe it will become less tedious once we have moved on, I know it will for me.

Thanks agian to all

[rdonj]

I meant SOME of the sentiments. Any of the sentiments. Anyway, it is kind of pointless for me to be quibbling over such minutia, I am afraid that is a habit of mine.


So, what's the state of things? If chris' team quits, are we going to set them AI and keep playing? Or are we just declaring the game over? This game just keeps losing credibility with every post

[Septimius Severus]

This is the situation as it stands:

Chris says that his team will likely not want to play on unless a rollback is done.

I have said, as admin I cannot countenance another rollback (espcially since we've just gone through one) unless their is a server error and confirmation from Gandalf, evidence of cheating, or other serious issue that I as admin and Gandalf as host and server admin have control over.

If a team or player has breached a built-in messaging limit in the game that has caused them to lose gold or items or a bug has occured (perhaps because of player actions) that is inherant in the game that is known about and that we have no control over I cannot order a rollback without all players consent.

I am going to open a poll on the subject on our team forums, I encourage all to vote. If team ACGHHS wants to bring in an expert to examine files to determine whether the limit has been breached that is fine, unless I hear from someone very high up that this justifies that we immediately do a rollback without all players consent, we go with what the everyone in the game wants to do via majority vote.

Gandalf is in agreement with me on this issue.

I will extend the current turn if necessary to allow all an opportunity to vote.

That's all I can do people. The decision rests with you all. Regardless of the outcome of the vote, the victory conditions as stated still apply. Last team standing who has not been defeated or otherwise concedes wins the game. Plain and simple.

Poll is opening now!