Units used in the LZ_X-ray battle

Pyros · #1 October 15th, 2005, 08:21 PM

Here we will make a collection of the forces that fought in the LZ_X-ray battle.

First we will make a post for each unit and the we will research in order to see how we will achieve historical accuracy with the units provided in the stock OOB.
Since this is a scenario, (if needed)we shall make small adjustments/modifications to the existing units (leader's name, experience, moral ,ammo..etc)

When we will finalize and agree on the units, I will post/update this front-post with the selected Units.

1. For the ARA Helicopters, I propose a modified UH-1B SS-11, with weapons configurations 4 slots of 4 x 2.75in FFAR, correct ammo to simulate a load of 48 rockets and a slightly modified Fire control, Range finder and Rate of Fire (in order to simulate better the lethality of the ARAs).

Cheers,
Pyros

Pyros · #2 October 15th, 2005, 08:24 PM

Aerial Rocket Artillery (ARA) Hogs were Hueys equipped with side mounting 24 round 2.75 inch rocket launchers on the XM3 armament subsystem. Carrying a total load of 48 Folding-Fin Aerial Rockets (FFARs), the Hogs were used effectively in the combat assault role.

picture
UH-1B Hog 64-14040 at LZ Hammond (late 1966) of C/2/20 Arty, 1st Cav Div

Pyros · #3 October 15th, 2005, 08:35 PM

UH-1As armed with two .30 cal. machine guns and two eight-tube 2.75 inch rocket launchers were first used in late 1963. The UH-1A was armed with various combinations of 7.62mm machine guns, 20mm cannon, and a chin-turret mounted 40mm grenade launcher. Some early Huey gun ships were armed with quad M60C 7.62mm machine guns mounted on the M6 aircraft armament subsystem.
UH-1 Huey with quad M60C 7.62mm machine guns on M6 armament subsystem.

UH-1B/UH-1C Hueys were used with moderate success as a gun ship with door mounting M60D 7.62 machine guns on the M23 armament subsystem. They could also be armed with a pod or side-mounting six-barrel minigun and seven-tube XM157 or M158 2.75 inch (70mm) rocket launcher on the Emerson Electric M21 armament subsystem, and the M5 chin-turret mount for a 40mm grenade launcher. The UH-1B was also armed with two fixed-mounting M24A1 20mm cannon on the XM31 armament subsystem. The M60A1 reflex sight was used for sighting guns and rockets on the UH-1B, UH-1C, and UH-1M Huey. With the fielding of the larger UH-1D as the Army's primary utility helicopter, the smaller UH-1Bs/UH-1Cs assumed the gunship role as their primary mission.

1st Cavalry Division UH-1D with pintle mounted M60D 7.62mm machine gun on M23 armament subsystem.

UH-1B with side mounting M134 minigun and seven-tube 2.75 inch rocket launcher on M21 armament subsystem

Pyros · #4 October 15th, 2005, 08:59 PM

Bell (model 205) UH-1D (1962) had a longer fuselage than previous models, increased rotor diameter, increased range, and more powerful Lycoming T53-L-9A or T53-L-11D 1100 shp engines, with growth potential to the Allied Signal Engines (ASE) T53-L-13B 1400 shp engine. The "towel rack" FM antenna and pitot were located on top of the cabin on the UH-1D. The UH-1D also featured a larger double windowed sliding door, and small single window hinged door, just behind the pilot's door. The UH-1D, redesigned to carry up to 13 troops, with a crew of two, reached Vietnam in 1963. The MedEvac version UH-1V could carry six stretchers and one medical attendant. The UH-1D has a range of 293 miles (467km) and a speed of 127 mph (110 knots). UH-1Ds were built under license in Germany. The primary armament subsystem used with the UH-1D/UH-1H Huey is two door mounting M60D 7.62mm machine guns on the M23 armament subsystem.

1st Cavalry Division UH-1Ds; in these first battles they didn't have any mounted weapons

Listy · #5 October 16th, 2005, 03:50 AM

I was thinking of includeing this in an OOB, as it's quite important in Veitnam (I'm amazed it's been missed so far).

The most realistic version I've created was one armed with CLuster weapons. That way it can pin dug in troops over an area.

Oh and the ARA's where also known As "Hogs" as they where very overloaded, so maybe a reduction in speed as well?

Pyros · #6 October 16th, 2005, 05:24 AM

David,

what is the Rate of Fire of a Hog [48 Folding-Fin Aerial Rockets (FFARs)]

IMO, It should be able to fire in one turn all 48 rockets(unless receives suppression from return fire or moves).

Anyway, for the battle we may use a UH-1B with FFARs in all four weapons slots and a total FFARs of 48 (also we have to see if the rate of fire is good to simulate that all shot can be fired in one turn, 5 minutes)

Questions:

1. How long it took for a ARA to shoot 24 Rockets (1st salvo)?

2. What was the combat/cruise speed of that chopper?

3. How long did it take to re-supply all the 48 rocket slots for one Helicopter (important for ammo depot simulation)

4. How much time it required to fly to the nearest Resupply airbase or camp?

5. What was the nearest re-supply base for the ARAs (PleiMe) ?

cheers,
Pyros
p.s Also the UH-1D should have no mounting weapons for this battle (should be removed); see other post.

Listy · #7 October 16th, 2005, 07:23 AM

Questions:

1. How long it took for a ARA to shoot 24 Rockets (1st salvo)?

After an hour on google and other search engines I got this:
System - M3 armament sub-system.
"The rockets may be fired in single pairs or in ripples of 2, 3, 4, 6, or 24 pairs at the rate of 6 pairs per second."

2. What was the combat/cruise speed of that chopper?

Unknown, but seems to be close enougth to the huey.

3. How long did it take to re-supply all the 48 rocket slots for one Helicopter (important for ammo depot simulation)

Dunno. How long does it take to re-load a 2.75" rocket tube?

4. How much time it required to fly to the nearest Resupply airbase or camp?

5. What was the nearest re-supply base for the ARAs (PleiMe) ?

I'd guess it was An Khe. As the ARA had to be re-fueled every third trip. Which fits with the UH-1 refueling. So I'd Guess, An Khe, 13 mins away.

Other Stuff I've found:

MG platoon D co, 9x M60's, Comanded by: Sgt Warren Adams.

Pyros · #8 October 16th, 2005, 07:46 AM

David nice research,

More questions:

1. Historical Platoon model (type and ammo levels)?
What was the typical equipment and ammo load of a US, NVA and VC platoon during this battle (for instance there were AT sections that fired LAW against anthills, how many of them, what about M-79 and HMGs) ?

2. Suggestions about experience & morale values for US, NVA and VC forces?

3. How many ARA and Gunship participated in the battle of LZ X-ray (each phase)?

Thanks David,
Pyros

Listy · #9 October 16th, 2005, 09:37 AM

1. Historical Platoon model (type and ammo levels)?
What was the typical equipment and ammo load of a US, NVA and VC platoon during this battle (for instance there were AT sections that fired LAW against anthills, how many of them, what about M-79 and HMGs) ?

I belive each squad had an M60, and an M79.
I DO know that each squad was issued with an M72.

2. Suggestions about experience & morale values for US, NVA and VC forces?

Urk, someone else can catch this one. however for this game I think the US would have Very good morale so they can keep on fighting, even when suppressed and their leaders are down.

3. How many ARA and Gunship participated in the battle of LZ X-ray (each phase)?
7 I belive, 6 from the battery (look in the other thread), and the Comander's ship. That battery flew for the whole time of the battle.

Pyros · #10 October 16th, 2005, 09:39 AM

What about this modification for the simulation of ARAs?

For the ARA Helicopters, I propose a modified UH-1B SS-11, with weapons configurations 4 slots of 4 x 2.75in FFAR, correct ammo to simulate a load of 48 rockets and a slightly modified Fire control, Range finder and Rate of Fire (in order to simulate better the lethality of the ARAs).