I suck with Pythium ... please help!

[Huzurdaddi]

I need help!

As I have stated before my inital strategy with pythium is based upon Principes backed up with lots of Theurg Acolytes casting Body Etherial. Works dandy for expanding. However I have three problems:

1) I can't figure out how to summon anything worth while. It's fustrating. I commonly have a good number of gems by turn 30 ( like 600 or so of various types sitting in the bank ) but nothing at all to spend them on. Maybe that's the curse of taking a rainbow mage?

2) I can't get blood worth crap and I *really* dig blood. But with the nerf to blood hunting it seems that blood is not for pythium.

3) I can't really figure out what is decent battle magic. I know that I have access to basically any air, water or astral battle magic but I can't find anything that really, really kicks ***. I've tried mass soul slay, mass enslave mind, mass stellar cascades but none of them *really* kick ***. Orb lighting would kick ***, but it's range seems to limit me from using it a lot ( I guess I should put my army right at the front or something ). And falling frost really does not seem to get the job done that well. I was even somewhat unimpressed with thurges casting Nifel Flames ( oh how I wanted that to work out! ). Wrathful skies seems to be the only spell that *really* kicks *** but it kicks my *** too! I guess I could try Shimmering Fields. There has to be *something* that I am missing. Oh I like nether darts, but sadly you don't get many casters with the ability to cast that. How should I use communion! I know it's massivly powerful but what to use?

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh I guess the one battle magic that I do know that works with communion is banishment. Sadly I'm allied with Ermor so that's a no-no. But it would be *really* funny to watch. 6 or so level 6 preists that would be funny to watch!

[PvK]

I think you probably just need to get more play experience. The things you are describing can be very very effective, if used in the right ways and numbers, against the right foes. For example, I don't know how mass soul slay can be ineffective, unless fighting things with high MR or that don't have souls or have tons of hitpoints or something. Communion is great with Pythium because of their cheap communion slaves. Basically you want a bunch of them, and they will allow your mages to cast more powerful spells with tons of fatigue to spare.

PvK

[SelfishGene]

Its funny before on multiplayer game i strongly considered taking Pythium but decided not to because of the exact same reasoning in not having anything to summon (i wanted to make a rainbow).

You say the high level astral spells aren't any good? I was always aiming one day to try out some of the battlefield wide luck and mind control spells, but haven't ever gotten far enough yet to test them out (or/ie got bored and quit before then)...

If you took the Divine Emperor, however, you can place more Astral buffs on him than on any other Pretender chassis in the game. I beleive its Skull Cap +1, up to four of the following: Tome of High Power +1, Forbidden Light +2, Crystal Coin +1, and The Rings of Wizardry and Sorcery +1; and the Robe of the Magi +1. +7 Astral would make a pretty powerful battlefield caster, even if he only started with 4 or 5. Than how many more Astral buffs are there possible during the battle? Banner of Northern Star +1, Astral Self Buff +1, i think maybe one more... and on top of that, you get the communion bonuses, which will probably >= +3. So assuming 4 astral at the start, you get as a maximum uh, 14?. Doesn't sound too shabby for a flabby human.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by SelfishGene:
Forbidden Light +2

Doesn't sound too shabby for a flabby human.

I don't think horror-marking your flabby human is a good idea.

[HotNifeThruButr]

wait... weren't you the one who wrote the Pythium guide?

Anyways, I would convert my gems into something all my casters can work with. If you want to turn one elemental gem into another, you can convert it astral pearls first.

[Huzurdaddi]

wait... weren't you the one who wrote the Pythium guide?

Well it was an initial try at a pythium guide!

And I've found the 1st part of the guide to be serviceable. You can expand quite well against high defence indeps with Principies+Theurg Acolytes casting body etherial. Works quite well.

And I wrote that guide without having played multiplayer which has shown me a big hole in the guide.

The problem with my strategy is what do you summon? And what kind of magic do you use after soul slay gets old?

I mean my current formula is something like :

1) research until turn 5 to get alteration 3.
2) expand using Principes ( and a few standards ) + theurg acolytes.
3) add in some theurgs and communicants to cast all of the soul slay/enslave mind that/stellar cascades that you want.
4) ????
5) ????

The strategy works great until 4. The problem is I don't know what to do after that! People are usually running around with mass summons and/or powerful SCs and they are hard to take down.

So seem to do quite well until about turn 40 or so and then it breaks down. I don't know what to do! Oh and whatever it is that I should do ( blood hunt a LOT? Figure out what to summon? ) I have to learn to somehow do it before turn 30 or so. I feel like I am *really* slow.

[ July 03, 2004, 07:50: Message edited by: Huzurdaddi ]

[Boron]

yep i have the same problems .
i started my first mp game 2 days ago so i am at turn 2 = no expierience in mp

i liked pyhthium but as you say there are no good astral summons . and i don't know yet how do design a good pretender for pyhtium because the arch theurgs are expensive and the principles need much resources so you can't take a sloth scale .
if you don't have some paths at your pretender you have nothing good to summon

in the late game with astral 3 water 1 on arch theurgs you only need +1 water / astral and can summon abominations but thats really late game .

blood is only useful if you find indep blood hunters and/or a site with a high blood summon bonus of 40+% ihmo .

i really like pythium but suck with them

[Master Shake]

Pythium is a great nation. With it's strong astral mages and gem income, coupled with the easy and early generation of clam of pearls for more astrals all mean strong flexibililty in the later game.

A good early-mid strategy is to recruit indy archers and go for Wind Guide. Principes are great basic infantry, especially with the standards to boost morale. Backed up by astral magic and wind-guided archers, it's a good combo.

The key to Pythium, however, it to go for Acashic Record (AR) early. Go for those Waste, Mtn and Forest provinces, and cast AR on them (Wastelands first) early. You should get set up for a good, broad gem income with that. With your Arch Theurgs' random pick, or with Sages, Druids, Amazons, or those flying death mages, you can get into many different magic lines and summons.

Air elemental queens are awesome, the Harbinger, or even better Angelic Host (which get you a strong Fire Mage). Contact Couatl can get you into Nature magic if you haven't already done it with Druids. Death is very easy to get into with a death 1 sage or an Arch Thuerg with a random death pick.

Edit: Forgot to add that your water magic can easily get you to Summon Troll King Court, which puts you into the water in force.

[ July 04, 2004, 22:05: Message edited by: Master Shake ]

[Kel]

Originally posted by Boron:
and i don't know yet how do design a good pretender for pyhtium because the arch theurgs are expensive and the principles need much resources so you can't take a sloth scale .

Or you can not make heavy use of principes.

Or you can make fast 2 turn castles and produce them from multiple points.

Or both.

- Kel