Oddness regarding supplying sneaky troops

Calanor · #1 October 30th, 2003, 02:06 AM

Imagine this: a vaettir Chief and his merry band of Wolf Riders journey out into the unknown, sneaking about in order to find a nice province to assault. Now, while doing this, they will not starve. However, as soon as they manage to conquer a province, they better keep their fingers crossed. If the Supply capacity of that province is too low they will start, all of a sudden, to starve. This hardly seems to be consistent. Also, if that same band happen to ride into one of your own provinces, there better not be too many giants present or these and/or the vaettir will again starve.

Actually, when I was trying out the Chief + Wolf Rider combination, I did to some extent expect them to require supplies, except while they are located in woodland areas. This would have made sense to me and would have encouraged me to skulk about in the woods with vaettir units - kind of fits the picture well. As things turned out, Forest Survival is not at all as useful for the vaettir as I had initially assumed.

I would suggest that the vaettir, and any other similar stealth units, are either able to survive without food (essentially, any stealth unit would now how to forage the lands in order to survive) or that they must rely on their Survival abilities, if any.

Oh, and speaking of Survival - IMO, it would make some sense if stealthy units with Survival would gain a bonus to their Stealth ability when located in that specific terrain. The great familiarity with that kind of environment would thus also be of advantage when they are trying to avoid being detected.

Saber Cherry · #2 October 30th, 2003, 02:13 AM

Sometimes in Dom I, I noticed that the supply in a province would suddenly and inexplibably drop, causing starvation. The next turn, it would go back to where it had been. I figured there was a stealth army passing by, and they ate first, but I'm not sure.

I think that "Survival" skills should allow half-supply usage in the specific terrain, in addition to a reduced risk of starving. And, if stealth units have to become a little more pricey to compensate for the fact that they don't ever starve, then so be it... because that's a strange game mechanic

Oh, and the suggestion about a stealth boost from survival is also a good idea. Possibly, survival could even give a terrain-specific stealth...

-Cherry

Nagot Gick Fel · #3 October 30th, 2003, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Sometimes in Dom I, I noticed that the supply in a province would suddenly and inexplibably drop, causing starvation. The next turn, it would go back to where it had been. I figured there was a stealth army passing by, and they ate first, but I'm not sure.

Nope, stealthy armies don't eat. What you noticed could be caused by:

- an enemy seizing a nearby province, thus cutting or your supply lines to the province you troops starved in.

- a special site in that province that tilted the scales here towards death, cold or heat.

Calanor · #4 October 30th, 2003, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Sometimes in Dom I, I noticed that the supply in a province would suddenly and inexplibably drop, causing starvation. The next turn, it would go back to where it had been. I figured there was a stealth army passing by, and they ate first, but I'm not sure.

Nope, stealthy armies don't eat. What you noticed could be caused by:

- an enemy seizing a nearby province, thus cutting or your supply lines to the province you troops starved in.

- a special site in that province that tilted the scales here towards death, cold or heat.

Are you refering to Dominions 1 now? If you are not, then I have to wonder if you have even tried to verify this in Dom 2? I have and there is no question that the Stealth units I have tested do require supplies. Abysian Slayers produced the same result as the Jotunheim Chief - 1 supply unit in upkeep. And this has nothing to do with supply lines, as this supply cost is clearly evident in your home province at turn 1. Just walk back and forth between two provinces with a stealthy unit and see for yourself.

Saber Cherry · #5 October 30th, 2003, 06:02 AM

I'm talking about Dominions 1, and not my stealth units, but suspected enemy stealth units. I just noticed that sometimes, the supply level would temporarily drop in a province I owned, when (I think) all the scales stayed the same. The only reason I can imagine for this is a stealth army passing through, but I can't confirm this to be the case, and Nagot Gick Fel thinks stealthy troops don't eat while sneaking.

Calanor · #6 October 30th, 2003, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I'm talking about Dominions 1, and not my stealth units, but suspected enemy stealth units. I just noticed that sometimes, the supply level would temporarily drop in a province I owned, when (I think) all the scales stayed the same. The only reason I can imagine for this is a stealth army passing through, but I can't confirm this to be the case, and Nagot Gick Fel thinks stealthy troops don't eat while sneaking.

Well, my reply was directed to N�got Gick Fel, actually

By the way, you said that your supply level dropped? It's not that the number of supplies used went up? That does not sound like an army passing by, actually. Rather, my impression is that different seasons affect the number of available supplies in a province and that would certainly explain a sudden, temporary drop such as the one you describe.

Saber Cherry · #7 October 30th, 2003, 06:15 AM

Dominions I did not have seasons... though if it had, that would be a good guess=)

Calanor · #8 October 30th, 2003, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Dominions I did not have seasons... though if it had, that would be a good guess=)

Hmm, good point

HJ · #9 October 30th, 2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I think that "Survival" skills should allow half-supply usage in the specific terrain, in addition to a reduced risk of starving.

This makes me wonder...
What does "reduced risk of starving really mean exactly? Reduced how and by what amount? Same goes for the stelath skill, what is the difference between stealth +5 and stealth +15?

Saber Cherry · #10 October 30th, 2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HJ:

What does "reduced risk of starving really mean exactly? Reduced how and by what amount? Same goes for the stelath skill, what is the difference between stealth +5 and stealth +15?

The second question is obvious - the difference is +10. Didn't you take math? =)

As for the first, I think that if you are short 10 supplies, instead of 10 troops starving (like in Doms I) 10 troops each have a % chance of starving. I don't know what the % is. I would prefer "reduced supply consumption" in that terrain type in addition to / instead of a "reduced starvation risk".