Phased Polaron too easy to research?

raynor · #1 January 26th, 2001, 02:18 AM

In every game I have played so far, I go straight for Phased Polaron before I put *any* beam weapons on the ship. In addition to punching through shields, they have a very good range. Plus, they seem quite cheap to research.

Do you think they should be more difficult to research? For example, do you think it would be better if you had to research every level of Anti Proton first?

I also think that since they punch through the shields, they should have some sort of drawback such as reduced range. I think it is just too easy to build ships equipped only with these fairly long range shield piercing weapons which took quite a good bit of damage.

Another question: What good are weapons like the ripper beam and other such weapons?

Can someone start up a game with all the tech turned on and design a ship with weapons better than the Phased Polarons? They just seem to be too good of a weapon.
I'm sure this sounds pretty naive to you SEIV gurus out there. But I haven't started playing with the AI bonus turned on yet and so haven't yet encountered any AI races with better tech ships than me.

Emperor Zodd · #2 January 26th, 2001, 03:27 AM

I think alot of the weapons need to be balanced better. PPB's need to be a little weaker,and Anti-matter and Quantum torpedoes need to be more accurate in my opinion.

We have alot of weapon systems but we all use the same ones like PPB's because they are the best. So we don't really have alot a weapons to use because we have figured out the few that are the best.

I don't use special racial weapons,so I am pretty much limited to what I actually use on my ships and fighters.

I think we need more new conventional weapons,especially for fighters.

Plus if we make beam weapons less effective on planets and fighters,we will use planetary and specialty weapons like anti-fighter/sats torpedoes and missles if they are created in the future.

I'm bored with PPB's doing it all.
Each weapon should have a reason for using it,and a need to use it.

[This message has been edited by Emperor Zodd (edited 26 January 2001).]

Talenn · #3 January 26th, 2001, 07:13 AM

Yes, weapon balance needs quite a bit of work IMO. Its not a big deal as it can all be modded to taste, though.

It was one of the first things on my 'hit list' after my first few games. My data set has completely rebalanced all of the 'basic' weapons in the game. IMO, they all have their uses now.

If anyone is interesting in seeing the latest and greatest revision, lemme know. I guarantee that at least the weapons will be far better balanced than in the orginal.

Talenn

Tomgs · #4 January 26th, 2001, 08:06 AM

Actually Organic races have better weapons than the PPB. The enveloping Acid weapon is great. I also usually use the PPB if I don't use a racial trait with weapons. At least untill I need a better range then I start researching other weapons. A PPB up against a full tech Organic ship is cannon fodder at least human against human. Even against the AI it can be very tough if they outrange you and do more damage per hit.

rdouglass · #5 January 26th, 2001, 03:22 PM

I agree with Tomgs. Organic tech has awesome weapons. The Enveloping Acid Globule (I think that's what its called) on massive mounts has a damage of 500, a fire rate of 2, and a range of 8 and are actually quite accurate. To me, thats even more powerful than a WMG even if it seems the WMG's never miss. However, the PPB's skip shields and have decent range and fire rates. They also IMO are only good for early game weapons. Once the AI get's Phased Shields, they (PPB's) drop drastically in thier effectiveness.

I do agree that PPB's are very easy to research, but IMO are useless in huge galaxy, low tech games except to rush the first AI you encounter. However, that could definitely put you into position to be MEE in a hurry. Personally, I like to avoid PPB's 'cause they are such an advantage early on (its easy enough to 'rush' an AI as it is).

SunDevil · #6 January 26th, 2001, 05:17 PM

Talenn:

I would like to see your data files. Would have a problem with just posting them in the mod section. I'm sure a lot of people sooner or later will be interested in balancing weapons.

Could you also by chance take a look at my update to the default ai race files, I would really like your opinion on them. Thanks.

raynor · #7 January 26th, 2001, 06:09 PM

Have you noticed how you have to research all the way up to Shield Generator V before the next thing you can research is Phased Shield Generator I?

I'm shocked and dismayed that they didn't do something very similar with the Phased Polaron Beam.

At least the AI *does* at least research and use the PPB...

UmberGryphon · #8 January 26th, 2001, 09:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
Once the AI gets Phased Shields, they (PPB's) drop drastically in their effectiveness.

Yes and no. Certainly PPBs stop being the best weapon by an order of magnitude, but they're so far in the lead early that they can lose a lot and still be one of the best weapons in the game.

I decide how good a weapon is by damage divided by rate-of-fire divided by size--"Damage per turn per kiloton". Even ignoring its special ability, the score of 1.6 (50/1/30) for a normal-mount PPB 5 is the best score for a non-racial-tech direct-fire weapon, and it even beats most of the racial-tech weapons. (I don't remember the score of a normal-mount enveloping acid globule, and I'm at work--anyone care to tell me?)

[This message has been edited by UmberGryphon (edited 26 January 2001).]

Tampa_Gamer · #9 January 26th, 2001, 09:33 PM

However, it costs 200k research to get there. For another 140k you can have ripper beams whith a ppk value of 2.5 (again, ignoring the special ability and stand-off ranges) and the additional RPs spent are getting you advances in propulsion at the same time.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 26 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 26 January 2001).]

raynor · #10 January 26th, 2001, 09:36 PM

In an earlier post, someone said that once the AI gets Phased Shields....

I have never seen Phased Shield on an AI ship. Has someone else?

I was under the impression that this was one of the flaws in the AI--that they never researched this.

I was kinda sorta hoping that my use of Phased Shields would turn the tide in my favor in my current game.