Iron Dragons=Uber Unit ??

Hawkmoon · #1 December 23rd, 2003, 08:29 PM

I have been playing almost non-stop with the occasional break for work, sleep, family and food but me and my friends have a gentleman's agreement to not use Iron Dragons. Are these units insanely powerful? I mean for the measely price of 25 Earth Gems you get a nearly unstoppable killing machine...what am I missing? Is there a chink that I'm not exploiting here? Are they easily killable with a few item combos? Help us out so we can add this untit back into our games please....

Nerfix · #2 December 23rd, 2003, 08:40 PM

Their magic resistance suX0Rs rear-end. Never ever neglet the power of magic resistance... or lack of it. A 3-Astral mage can kill an ID, or even worse, make it change sides. A lucky punk with 1-Death magic can give ID a death sentence.

Hawkmoon · #3 December 23rd, 2003, 08:46 PM

What spells are you specifically talking about ? I apologize for the newbishness here but we need help...what spells kill ID or allow you to take control ?

Pocus · #4 December 23rd, 2003, 08:54 PM

you should not ban a creature, at least try to comes with a solution, there is always at least one

For example against iron dragon, check all spells wich ask for a MR save. An example : If you play Jotunheim, have your mages cast disintegrate, with a spell focus for further MR breaching. If you compare what you must invest compared to what cost a dragon (20 gems ok, but researching to level 9 in construction too), then you will see that it is not as desequilibrated at you might think.

Check also spells which hamper move, like the various vine, entangle and bond spells (nature, fire, air, ...). They will stop in their track a creature for one round. In the meantime, some units can hammer at them.
There is also blindness, which will reduce the attack and defence too zero. Ok attack wont be important, because they trample (so I dont think the stat is used), but having a defence of 0 will mean that your troops will be able to kill them rather easily.

Just some ideas, but there is more.

Sammual · #5 December 23rd, 2003, 09:10 PM

Other than Vine Ogres Iron Dragons give the best 'bang for the buck'. The only thing they don't have is a very high Magic Resistance.

Control is your best bet. I gem per cast and it has almost a 50% chance to take over an ID.

Arcane Domination seems to take control of about 25% of attacking Iron Dragons per cast.

Casting a spell that will kill off all the attacking mages causes the Iron Draons to fall apart (Bone Grinding, Fire Storm, Acid Storm, Rain of Stones, Astral Tempest, Heat from Hell, Grip of Winter).

Unraveling destroys almost half of the Iron Dragons per cast.

Master Enslave gets you about 25% of attacking Iron Dragons per cast (Plus most of the units with low MR) but does enough fatigue to kill most mages.

Personally I try to have more IDs than whoever I am fighting, If I don't I just cast Control a lot.
These suggestions only help if you know that you will be facing the IDs.

Sammual

NTJedi · #6 December 23rd, 2003, 09:11 PM

Iron Dragons????

They're only good and banning them from a game is way overboard.

There are other spells just as powerful if not more powerful !
examples:
Ghost Riders = Army of Longdead Horsemen for 5 death gems
THUS 25 gems same price as your Iron Dragon... you have 5 of those armies which could easily do TONZ MORE damage then any one iron dragon !!

Wild Hunt = Global Enchantment which sends one enemy priests by himself every turn to fight a powerful nature assassin plus army of strong wolves. Much better assassin then any Iron Dragon could even wish to be.

these are just two examples !

[ December 23, 2003, 22:05: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

sfsuphysics · #7 December 23rd, 2003, 09:19 PM

Yah considering its a level 9 spell, and how many levels of earth magic do you need to summon it? (probably invested a few gems there getting a mage that powerful, unless that was your initial pretender). That late in the game you shouldn't have to pay ungodly amounts of gems to summon powerful creatures, I mean its assumed you're already powerful as it is.

Besides no creature is perfectly good. As mentioned already with magic. Plus I'm sure enough lower level creatures and you can overwhelm even an iron dragon. Never had one myself personally, but also can you heal them? Or are they like golems?

Gandalf Parker · #8 December 23rd, 2003, 09:46 PM

In Dom1 there were some things that eventually became common to agree not to use. Only until a patch fixed them tho which did usually happen.

But in general, this is an excellent game of balances. If you feel something is too powerful (or too worthless) you might want to do some creative thinking.

If anything DOES seem in either Category let us know.

Hawkmoon · #9 December 23rd, 2003, 10:21 PM

The replies have been awesome...thanks a lot..I will share what I've gathered here...looks like ID's aren't quite as "Uber" as I had previously thought. LOL...and apparently there are far worse things than a unit of ID out there...sheesh...this game is insane...I love it !!!

Vger · #10 December 24th, 2003, 12:01 AM

Hi,

I'm a relative newb, but I should think that playing Jotun with Neifel theme could also deal with them. Those Jarls are SC's by themselves, especially once you can equip them decently. Just offering another solution.

Also, I haven't done this, but from looking at the stats for the Troll King and his court when I cast it makes me think it would do well vs IDs.

This would be an interesting trial for the new battle simulator someone's done. I.e. what can kill IDs?

Ciao,
V'ger gone