Soft-skinned vehicles ... a suggestion

[Arralen]

Atm, soft skinned vehicles are treated, or at least behave, very much like squads: They only get destroyed when the last crew member is a casualty. This can get pretty annoying, as it leads to
a) unrealistic survivability
b) no chance of a vehicle getting destroyed, but the crew surviving/bailing

I would suggest changing it to a %age for system damage (incl. crew casualties) or outright destruction (with maybe some crew surviving). Chance would have to depend on HEKill, Warhead Size, Survability and Size of the vehicle.

[PlasmaKrab]

Yes, you can have a soft-skinned vehicle destroyed without each of the crew members having to be taken out separately.

Admittedly, that happens when the damage done is big enough (direct arty hit, tank round, ATGM...). But i remember seeingcrew abandoning their (soft-skin) vehicle when pinned and one or two guys had been killed.

Consider that when firing at a truck or so, your have an easier job and better chances taking out the crew first than trying to bust the engine or anything. And that if say the driver takes a shot, one other crewman can replace him, involving reduced readiness, higher suppression. I think that lies somewhere in the rules, that vehicles with reduced crews lose abilities.

OTOH, I personnally find more annoying the AFVs taking ** damage without me having a chance to know how the crew is going.

If I have understood anything in what you said, you suggest switching soft-skinned vehicle to AFVs' damage system?

[Arralen]

PlasmaKrab said:
Yes, you can have a soft-skinned vehicle destroyed without each of the crew members having to be taken out separately.
Admittedly, that happens when the damage done is big enough (direct arty hit, tank round, ATGM...).

If enough HEkill (or is it PenHE?) is applied, obviously all crew could be casualty at once, resulting in an instant explosion of the vehicle.

But i remember seeingcrew abandoning their (soft-skin) vehicle when pinned and one or two guys had been killed.

Abandoning because of failed morale check, maybe. But have you ever seen a destroyed vehicle, with some bailed survivers as it happens with tanks?

Consider that when firing at a truck or so, your have an easier job and better chances taking out the crew first than trying to bust the engine or anything.

Sure, but why should killing the crew destroy the truck?

If I have understood anything in what you said, you suggest switching soft-skinned vehicle to AFVs' damage system?

More or less, yes.
I would like to see truck get "abandoned" when the crew is taken out, or destroyed, with some survivors crawling away.

This comes from the "blackhawk down" article at http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/...default16.asp.
and playing Gunrunners "Strike To Mogadishu Beta 2.0".
There it's told how some dozend vehicles where shot apart, crews rotating until no-one was unhurt anymore. Nevertheless, the hummies and trucks didn't spontaniously blow up, but kept going even with what in SP terms would be high system damage, only left behind after behind totally unable to be moved any more. Or some truck blown apart, with some it's crew getting away unhurt.
Something that does not work out that way in the SPMBT scenario.

[SvenKessen]

Definitely true that crews can survive and bail out when their soft vehicle is destroyed - I watch my core troops closely and have seen it many times. It is of course more likely for bigger crews, bigger chance that someone survives than in a 2 man crew truck.

A different question is about the different probabilities for each outcome. You get quite a lot hits where only one or two crew members are killed, imho a bit unlikely for big calibre rounds or arty shrapnels hitting the vehicle.

[PlasmaKrab]

Arralen said:

This comes from the "blackhawk down" article at http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/...default16.asp.
and playing Gunrunners "Strike To Mogadishu Beta 2.0".
There it's told how some dozend vehicles where shot apart, crews rotating until no-one was unhurt anymore. Nevertheless, the hummies and trucks didn't spontaniously blow up, but kept going even with what in SP terms would be high system damage, only left behind after behind totally unable to be moved any more. Or some truck blown apart, with some it's crew getting away unhurt.
Something that does not work out that way in the SPMBT scenario.

Mmh, now I can see your point better.

Yes, from this point of view, it appears like soft vehicles were only some kind of 'move points & icon' pack on which the crew sits, with no physical existence as such.

Remember the big no-no about armored infantry? Probably something in the code makes everything with armor=0 take damage as if it were infantry, and reversed. If you look at an open-topped APC like M3 halftrack or BTR-152, you'll see that troops inside and crew can get damage points without the vehicle being busted too.

If so, I fear it cannot be worked out.
Only way I see would be to design a specific armor rating (like the AP=222 for HEAT), for which the vehicle would be considered as an APC with armor=0+ (not exactly 0 since the games refuses it, but neglectable thickness).

Hey, by the way, how goes the penetration calculation? Rejecting the armor=0 for this calculation smells ZERO DIVIDE all the way!

If so we're stuck.

Cheers,

Plasma