Help w/Arco

incognito · #1 March 27th, 2006, 11:15 AM

Planning to take Arco in an upcoming multi-player game w/friends. My test games, however, have raised a number of questions. Keep in mind, all of these insights are with Zen's balance mod on, difficult research, indy 9, and 50 magic site settings.

- with heavy scales and an SC pretender (wyrm, dragon, etc), I can manage early expansion pretty well. I'm using the elephant/hypaspist combo detailed in so many posts on this board to get a nice average morale. What next though? In a prior game as Abyssia, by an equivalent turn (20 or so), I had hordes of 30-40 fiends led by demonbred that would lay waste to the armies I am fielding as Arco. Moreover, they were supported by an SC VQ... How does Arco make the transition to competent midgame not in danger of being wiped by this kind of easy summons?
- is heavy scales and high dom the right way to go? I've read posts about the SC Nataraja approach, but don't like the fact that he's not a good expansion SC until you get some construction magic researched and gem income(how high would I have to get). With difficult research, this could be awhile; I'm guessing my early expansion would suffer mightily, especially with the elephant losses I suffer in each and every battle.
- I like Arco's mages ie the mystics with a sprinkling of astrologers. What are some good mid-level magic options to shoot for? I'm assuming their abundance makes them nice battlefield magic support.
- I'm assuming watch tower is a good option. With high production scales, I just don't miss the benefits of a wizard's tower and with non-capitol only mages, I figure more castles + lots of income = good.

Thanks in advance for help... If you've never played Arco, but been blasted by a good player, I'd love to know what it was they fielded at this mid game stage.

Oversway · #2 March 27th, 2006, 12:20 PM

I'm no expert, but here are some thoughts.

You may have good gem income from those randoms (and perhaps indie mages). Some players turn to summons: bane lords and (as I just found out) black servants if you have death gems, vine ogres for nature, etc.

You can buff your elephants with luck, body etheral so they don't become outdated quite as quickly. Your other troops (hoplites, etc.) can be a decent meat shield to protect your mages.

To deal with SCs, you have paralyze and soul slay. You can build spell focii and/or communion to get overcome their mr.

You may have good research, if so hopefully you can get to higher level spells and summon some royalty or other SCs.

shovah · #3 March 27th, 2006, 12:31 PM

one of my prefered arco pretenders:
Shedu with: e4 s4, 3 order, 1 heat, 3 growth, 1 misfortune, 3 magic, 5 dominion (i think you can boost to 7 or so if you drop 1 scale but not sure) and a watchtower.
you get good research, large income and low unrest and a powerful pretender that gets good buffs and gives heart companions a small (but useful) boost in battle.
there are plenty of lower level summons mystics can get with all their randoms and mystics and astrologers are great battlefield mages (enslave mind, stellar cascades ect)
its also useful to have a few boosted astrologers mind hunting.
with all your money and magic scales i would try to research: evocation 6 (astral fires, mind hunt, stellar cascades and a bunch of low lvls for random mystics) alteration 4 (buffs+baleful star which is now useful) enchantment 5 (dispel, eyes of god, buffing) and then pour the rest into construction and conjuration to make use of randoms.

Wish · #4 March 27th, 2006, 12:32 PM

an SC nataraja isn't good until you get alt 3, which can be accomplished around turn 4 or so, until then use base troops and mercs.

in upcomming CB mods black servants wont make good thugs, sinc ethey will be losing life drain and instead gaining drain strength.

so don't get as attached to that strategy as I have.

shovah · #5 March 27th, 2006, 12:36 PM

im not too attached to it, aslong as my flaming heirophants of doom dont get nerfed im a happy bunny

incognito · #6 March 27th, 2006, 03:05 PM

Thanks for tips thus far.

Given your descriptions, what kind of armies are you typically fielding as Arco at Turn20? Turn 50? How do those armies stand up versus undead hordes? Blood summons?

As much detail as possible about stock troops, mass summons, supporting mages, and special rare complementing summons (eg a fire king)is helpful.

shovah · #7 March 27th, 2006, 03:19 PM

against undead you have solar rays and MIND BRUN (if he is a purely mindless undead army he will die) and against conventional armies you have buffed elephants (ethereal and lucky elephants rock) and a multitude of spells and low level summons. against a blood army with only a few units then soul slay would be good and against alot of blood i would try to mind hunt+earth attack or else just use what you use vrs undead (remember your priests are good) make sure to get construction up early and make a dwarven hammer or 2 (with your pretender if needed) to make a bunch of boosters which turn your low random path mages into immensely destructive beings of great power
a good way to fill your army out is to get a couple of priestesses with vine crowns and have them cast awaken vinemen (select however many priestesses you want to cast it and press shift+m to give the order, it will make them autocast it every turn without you having to reorder it)

Wish · #8 March 27th, 2006, 06:45 PM

so far mid-late game is my week point also. I am not very good at assembling armies, but pretty good at early expansion.

a downfall since getting big fast makes people want to tear you down first (what happened to me in the winnowing)

shovah · #9 March 27th, 2006, 07:11 PM

im the opposite of wish. i have a little trouble with expansion but late game expansion and equiping SC's and thugs is where i shine (compared to my other skills)

Ironhawk · #10 March 27th, 2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

incognito said:
Thanks for tips thus far.

Given your descriptions, what kind of armies are you typically fielding as Arco at Turn20? Turn 50? How do those armies stand up versus undead hordes? Blood summons?

As much detail as possible about stock troops, mass summons, supporting mages, and special rare complementing summons (eg a fire king)is helpful.

For initial expansion, as you do, I use the elephant/hypaptist combo. But as time drags on that is no longer viable as other human players will target your elephants with Fire Largest and the like, making them a liability more than anything else. By turn 20 or so I usually kill off all my elephants and have armies composed mostly of Hypaptists and Mystics (with all the archers and whatnot as well). The job of the hypaptists isnt really to fight or in this particular case match off against fiends or undead. Thier job is simply to buy time with thier high prot/high morale for Arco battlefield magic to hammer the enemy.

And that is the key to the arco mid-game: that thier battlemagic is so powerful and versatile. Vs regular troops they have access to blade wind, falling fires, and even acid rain/falling frost/thunderstrike occassionally. Vs heavy troops they have lightning bolts, magma bolts, and gifts from heaven. Vs SCs they have paralyze and soul slay on top of the fact that I believe Astrologers can teleport? So you can almost be gauranteed of an SC kill.

By turn 50 or so you should have diversified your magic to the point where you have a Vine Ogre factory set up to be your primary meatshield. Hypaptists are still a good troop even in that era tho. Additionally you should have gotten a 3-level in a single path Mystic for most elemental paths by that point. Which, accompained by what should be a large gem income, you can use to summon the elemental royalty. Any SCs you summon should be well equipped too, due to the Arco elemental diversity.