Q; Regarding Communion Master/Slaves

thekossack · #1 October 29th, 2006, 01:22 PM

When playing as Pythium, I notice that after casting Communion Master with many communion slaves, my Theurg doesn't show an increase in magic levels when I click him for his stats display. In the game, when mages cast level gain spells, the new level does show on the display, so what gives about communion master? Is he buffed and not simply not showing? Is it a bug? Am I supposed to do something specific for the slaves?

Also, when my Theurgs are buffed but set to simply cast spells, they tend to be very stupid, casting nothing but Body Ethereal again and again. Whats that all about?

Endoperez · #2 October 29th, 2006, 01:56 PM

If you have at least two spells, the masters' skills are increased. It might not show up.

Body Ethereal is a good spell. Casting it isn't a bad choice. It makes powerful units, like Elephants, incredible. However, casting it on archers is a poor choice. The AI isn't clever enough to make that distinction. I presume the Theurg kept casting it on archers or some other nearby units.

It might also be the case of Body Ethereal having AoE of 1 square, or 3 humans, while e.g. Mind Burn only targets 1 person. As such, the spellcasting AI might think that targeting 3 people is better than targeting just 1.

Frostmourne27 · #3 October 29th, 2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Endoperez said:
If you have at least two spells, the masters' skills are increased. It might not show up.

That would be at least two slaves, not spells. IIRC in Dom2, the bonuses didn't show up in the units stat line. Might have changed, might not have.

Quietly · #4 October 29th, 2006, 05:50 PM

I also noticed it not showing up, makes it very annoying to see the mechanics... eg whether there is a bug or exactly how it works... I mean, if I have 4 communion masters and 8 slaves, do the masters recieve +1 or +3 to all paths?

kinda confused about the exact workings of communion anyway... seems like slaves end up with way more fatigue than the masters.... which seems odd to me, if you have a master and 2 slaves, shouldn't they all carry roughly 1/3 of it minus reinvigoration? or are there calculations on the slaves encumbrance and so forth... just wondering, because using slave matrix on some plain old commanders, ends up with them having huge fatigue; if anything, seems like slaves should have less fatigue, since the masters have to pay fatigue cost of the spell + spellcasting encumbrance, whereas slaves just standing still should only share fatigue cost?

Frostmourne27 · #5 October 29th, 2006, 06:45 PM

AFAIK:
2 slaves: +1 to all paths
4 slaves: +2 to all paths
8 slaves: +3 to all paths
etc

Fatigue is calculated like this I think. Pretend you have a communion of A High Priest of the Sun (F2B3) and 4 Moon Priests (S2B2). High Priest is the master (remember than sabath and communion are interchagable). High priest is now F4B5, and Moon Priests are S4B4. High priest of the sun casts Spell XXX, which requires blood 4. Now the math get really weird: each moon priest get 1/5 of the fatigue to that would be incured by casting this spell with blood 4. The High Priest of the Sun gets 1/5 of the fatigue that a blood 5 mage would get when casting this blood 4 spell. Also note that the fatigue sharing is not optional, and that fatigue over 200 turns into health damage. You can kill communion slaves if you are not carefull. AFAIK, fatigue is only from master to slaves, wheras buffs get shared both ways. (that is, when a communion slave casts a spell, his master doesn't get fatigue - the slave gets it all.)

Quietly · #6 November 4th, 2006, 12:14 AM

well, thats interesting... still curious though, about how communion works with multiple masters...

if there are 2 masters and 8 slaves, do all masters and slaves get +3 to all paths? and slaves share both masters' fatigue costs?

and can mages be both slaves and masters... say there 2 or 3 slaves, and 2 having both casted slave/master... will masters share each others' fatigue when casting spells? will they factor into the bonus to paths? can they be slaves to themselves? or is this not possible at all...

Zebion · #7 November 4th, 2006, 02:00 AM

The slaves' don't get the increased spell magic,only masters

Arameyan · #8 November 4th, 2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Quietly said:
and can mages be both slaves and masters... say there 2 or 3 slaves, and 2 having both casted slave/master... will masters share each others' fatigue when casting spells? will they factor into the bonus to paths? can they be slaves to themselves? or is this not possible at all...

Thats also my question! I want to try Ctis shamans casting both communion master and communion slave. Is it possible? such strategy wouldn't be useful for fatigue but have advantages in terms of magic level and individual spells.

BigJMoney · #9 November 4th, 2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Frostmourne27 said:
Pretend you have ... 4 Moon Priests [slaves] (S2B2). ... Moon Priests are [now] S4B4.

I didn't know that the magic paths of the slaves is increased, too. Are you sure it's not just the paths of the master?

I'm now kind of wondering if it's possible to take a fatigue "penalty" for being the slave recipient of fatigue from a spell actually above your path ability to cast. For example, a slave taking his portion of of an 800 fatigure spell split 8 ways would be 100 if his path equals the path of the spell. If he is one level below the path of the spell, does he take 200 fatigue?

=$= Big J Money =$=

mivayan · #10 November 4th, 2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Arameyan said:
Thats also my question! I want to try Ctis shamans casting both communion master and communion slave. Is it possible? such strategy wouldn't be useful for fatigue but have advantages in terms of magic level and individual spells.

bad idea. as soon as a master has cast a spell, all slaves will be passive that turn.

Quote:

BigJMoney said:I didn't know that the magic paths of the slaves is increased, too. Are you sure it's not just the paths of the master?

I'm now kind of wondering if it's possible to take a fatigue "penalty" for being the slave recipient of fatigue from a spell actually above your path ability to cast. For example, a slave taking his portion of of an 800 fatigure spell split 8 ways would be 100 if his path equals the path of the spell. If he is one level below the path of the spell, does he take 200 fatigue?

=$= Big J Money =$=

Slaves dont get increased magic skills when they cast spells. But when calculating fatigue for the masters spells, they get the communion bonus to all paths even if they have no magic skill. And yes, slaves get double their share of the spell fatigue (and also double their encumbrance) if they have 1 skill too little.