questions about devnull mod

[Silent Sorrow]

Two questions (bear in mind that I'm at work and haven't actually installed the files--just looked at the readmes):

1. There are all sorts of changes and additions. The readme gives Version history but doesn't actually explain what the new weapons, etc., are or how they work. Shouldn't there be some text somewhere explaining in detail--such as a manual--what everything is, how the changes are intended to affect gameplay, etc.? (The only thing that gets explained in detail are the space monsters.) If I install, I feel like I'm going in completely blind, with no clue how to change my play style to account for changes to the base game.

2. How does the mod work with TDM AIs? I notice in the readme for the Vikings, for example, that it says you shouldn't combine it with other mods. But is this devnull Vikings AI the same as the TDM AI (and I'm assuming the TDM AIs are considered the "gold standard")? If not, what sort of tradeoff will I have to take for using one or the other? And what about the many other TDM AIs that don't appear as devnull AIs? Do I just have to do without them or just use the stock AIs in that case (yuck)?

[Cirvol]

there is a whole devnull thread

read it...
but seriously, learn to play with mods (ie, learn mods) by doing a fake game with max tech, max racial points, and that way you can see all the stuff in the game right away...

design a few ships and learn

[Silent Sorrow]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
there is a whole devnull thread

read it...
but seriously, learn to play with mods (ie, learn mods) by doing a fake game with max tech, max racial points, and that way you can see all the stuff in the game right away...

design a few ships and learn

Sigh.

I suppose I could do that.

But I think when you have a mod that is this wide-ranging it's just professional to include the equivalent of a manual. There are several reasons why this just makes good sense but for me one is I have a busy life and don't really have the time or the inclination to wade through everything first-hand, searching through this, that and the other thing, staging mock games to figure it out by trial and error, and asking question after question on the forums. The game is already complex enough as it is and I don't think this sort of thing helps attract more players.

Maybe when I get the chance I'll have a look.

[Fyron]

Perhaps you could find something on the SE4 Site Directory.

Devnull does not have many huge radical changes, just lots of tweaks (except for monsters, but you don't play as them ). A comprehensive manual does not make too much sense for it (or most other mods).

[deccan]

Hmm, considering that the makers of Devnull made the mod for free and you're not paying anything for it, it seems to me that asking them to make a manual to go along with it seems a bit ungrateful. Hey, if you get familiar with the mod, why not write a manual of your own and post it here? I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.

[Arkcon]

Also consider, someone started the Devnull mod -- I then other people took over when he didn't have time. So a simple, yet complete manual isn't going to be easy.

Search for original thread on the mod. Whatever concept started Devnullicus(?sp) on the path to the mod is the bast simple explanation for what the "flavor" he was working for in this mod.

I gotta say 'tho. I play mods mostly because they are unfamilliar to me. That's part of the fun. Give the AI only a low bonus, and they can still beat you.

[ July 26, 2003, 00:18: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Silent Sorrow]

Originally posted by deccan:
Hmm, considering that the makers of Devnull made the mod for free and you're not paying anything for it, it seems to me that asking them to make a manual to go along with it seems a bit ungrateful. Hey, if you get familiar with the mod, why not write a manual of your own and post it here? I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.

Actually, I see binford has put together a kind of manual that explains the base changes and that helps.

And yes, maybe it SOUNDS ungrateful but I did say it just seems to be good sense. Of course it's fabulous that someone in the community took the time to mke the mod. But honestly, if you're going to go to the trouble of making so many changes, why WOULDN'T you also include some kind of explanation of what has been changed? Otherwise, it's too much of an "in-crowd" thing in which the only people likely to play it are the ones who have lots of time on their hands and can be bothered to sift through it all.

A "manual" (and what I'm talking about here wouldn't be a full manual by any means--just a few notes of explanation like binford has done so I have some context within which to understand what I'm reading in the Version history) isn't really an "extra," in my opinion. It isn't something you forego because you're doing it for free. It's an INTEGRAL part of the game because it allows players to get right to playing the game instead of making figuring the game out an exercise in itself.

(Look at MOO3--not free, I know, but ... Complex game, shipped with a manual, I hear, but one so poor that it contributed incalculably to the game's dismal reception and almost certainly turned away many potential purchasers before they got near the game. Who knows how things might have gone if a proper manual had shipped with it?)

[Arkcon]

Yeah, a little text blurb describing the mod would help, 'tho you said it was there. I never cheked myself, just played it and got toasted by the monsters. Have you seen this web page: web page Click

I found it with a search on google. Or is it the same as what's in the readme in the zip?

[ July 26, 2003, 01:23: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Fyron]

Mods do not require any "manuals"... simple readmes suffice...

[Taera]

the deal is, there is a little too many changes there in DevNull to list them all - but on the other hand they're not drastic enough to make it difficult to play. Actually, you can play DNM on PBW and learn in progress. I did that.