Gift of 'Unreason'

[Panpiper]

I am looking to create a 'ritual' spell that turns a commander type into a troop type, robbing them of their commander status. Looking through example spells however and the modding guide, I see no clue as to how to achieve this effect. The idea would be to allow the player to pad his troops with units possessing commander stats (like sacred commanders which could be built outside of the capital).

Would anyone have an idea as to how to achieve this effect?

[Edi]

You would probably need to combine something like Gift of Reason that selects a specific unit as target and have it hit the unit with the Enslave Mind effect. Enslavement turns commanders to regular units.

[Aezeal]

I can't imagine why you'd want that though.. for your own troops at least.. and PICKING enemy commanders and downgrade them would be kinda unbalancing..

explain your idea's please

[Panpiper]

I'm doing a mod in which all the truly decent troops are so very elite that they can only be built in very small numbers. Most of this race's forts would build only one or two units per turn, one of them likely being a commander. Moreover, at least one unit's highly desirable random magic pick only has a 25% chance of showing up on the purchased unit. If it shows, it's a eureka moment, but if it doesn't, you bought a unit that is less powerful than other similar commanders. I can envisage one enjoying being able to salt them away among the regular troops, both to pad the number of actual troops, as well as to shore up those troops' staying power (the commander versions are significantly tougher). Moreover, this race's sacred 'troops' are only capital buildable, but many commander choices are not capital only, yet are sacred. This spell will allow fielding a reasonable number of highly elite troops, as opposed to a tiny number of regular troops along for the ride with 24 commanders. It would be a 'one blood slave' spell.

[Aezeal]

But why not just use the commander and send him into battle as if he where a trooper? Why waste the bloodslave on degrading a expensive commander (or are your commanders stronger than troops but less expensive (makes not much sense and I still don't know why you'd downgrade them then.))

[DrPraetorious]

Due to the way the mod engine works, what you want is impossible - the effect # for Gift of Reason does not let you do other things, it only lets you elevate units to commanders.

It would also be very difficult if not impossible to engineer a situation in which such a change was in fact desirable. Commanders are better then troops in almost every respect - there are a few situations where the morale effects are better if someone is a troop, but generally the reverse is true.

(I am drunk and apologize if what I said makes no sense.)

[Panpiper]

Situation: On virtually all of my fortresses I am able to recruit each turn one commander and one, count em, one regular troop. I assemble the most powerful armies I can. They consist of bands of 24 commanders (the maximum number of commanders you can select when in the same province) and not much more than 24 troops. A battle is joined, 12 troops are killed, half the army, morale checks are made, the whole force routs, commanders and all.

Now change this situation. I make half my commanders troops. I put them in with the regulars. Their unit morale goes up a bit as does the overall 'staying power' of the troop component due to the significantly tougher 'troops'. The same battle is joined, less than 12 troops are killed, less than a third of the army, much fewer morale checks are made, the army does not rout. Also because I no longer have 24 commanders to stack, I can double the density of the concentration of my forces, so the battle is no longer a mere 24 troops and 24 commanders. Now it is potentially 72 troops and 24 commanders, 72 really tough troops. Now 'there' is a chaos army.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Can you give them a second form that's not a commander, and give them a one way change shape command?

[Panpiper]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
Can you give them a second form that's not a commander, and give them a one way change shape command?

By the Gods of Chaos Lazy_Perfectionist, you are a genius! That might well be exactly how to handle this.

Edit: I spoke too soon. I tried it and couldn't make it work. The unit stays a commander. So you may not be a genius Lazy_Perfectionist, but it was a good idea.

[DrPraetorious]

Yeah, that's not how it works.

I field more than 24 commanders at once all the time. I'm a bit crazy for it, actually.

The restriction that you can only recruit 1 commander/fortress/month is, indeed, a severe restriction - but converting them to non-commanders after they are recruited wouldn't help with that.

As niefelheim, you are very often in a situation similar to the one you describe. When that situation arrives, however, what most people do is simply stop using troops and field commanders exclusively. There are advantages and drawbacks to doing this, but if your commanders are flat-out *better* than your regular troops, sans equipment, this is what you'd tend to do.

Commander-ness is a feature of how recruitment is done, not of the unit # itself .

(I'm drunk again, same schpeal)