Interesting Site: Wheeled vs. Tracked AFV (US)

[Sewter]

I am not too sure on how this pertains to WinSPMBT (perhaps terrain movement costs), but it sure is interesting. Evidently, the author favors the M113. But it also goes into SLAT armor. There are burning vehicles on this site.

http://www.geocities.com/paratroop20...rykersfail.htm

[Backis]

THE ANSWER IS TO V-HULL SHAPE OUR M113 GAVIN LIGHT TRACKS WHICH WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF AND SUPPLY THEM TO OUR TROOPS NOT BUY EXPENSIVE, INFERIOR WHEELED TRUCKS, EVEN V-HULLED ONES.

Sparky alert. This guy is a known nutjob so beware.

His main objective is to immortalize himself by fooling people into thinking the M113 was ever called "Gavin", a moniker he himself invented...

[Sewter]

He seems a bit extreme. Is any of it true? ie: wheeled off-road becomes more likely to become stuck than tracks? I imagine that it has more to do with the weight of the vehicle. I love the picture of the 113's coming to the rescue! I have heard that the Stryker with SLAT armor is much heavier that it was supposed to be, and that it is top-heavy, as well. But I can not imagine that an old APC would fair any better.

[JaM]

M113 will be always better than Humwee or Stryker, israelis dont want strykers at all, as they know that in urban combat, wheel is a weakpoint.Sooner US army finds it, better...

[IanWilliams]

I've read most of Mr. "Gavins" stuff. He views the M113 as the be all, end all uber APC and the Stryker as the Ford Pinto of APCs.

A rational person would acknowledge that there are inherent tradeoffs between wheeled and tracked designs such as:

Fuel Use (most accounts I've read show the Stryker getting ~3X the mileage of a M113)

Noise signature (Tracks are loud)

Off road ability (Tracks are inherently superior)

Yada Yada Yada

That said his site does have some interesting ideas for playing AFV Dr. Frankenstein with MOBHack.

[Backis]

JaM said:
M113 will be always better than Humwee or Stryker, israelis dont want strykers at all, as they know that in urban combat, wheel is a weakpoint.Sooner US army finds it, better...

Better at what?

Peeling potatoes?

[JaM]

In everything, they are more versatile.Wheels are too limiting,you cant add too heavy armor without stressing suspension etc...In every aspect are tracked vehicles better in combat than wheeled.

[Backis]

JaM said:
In everything, they are more versatile.Wheels are too limiting,you cant add too heavy armor without stressing suspension etc...In every aspect are tracked vehicles better in combat than wheeled.

Just as I thought then, you don't know what you're talking about...

Wheeled suspensions have advantages as well as drawbacks.

So.

Lets compare it to the Stryker in the mission causing most casualties; Convoy escort.

Your "in all ways superior" M113;

1: Has a protection level that is NOT superior compared to the Stryker against the threat faced in Iraq, its is MORE vulnerable to heavy IED's and mines, as vulnerable to RPG (I'll allow for quick slat armour deployment) and small arms (some poor shmuck is always sticking their head out).

2: Is so slow that it cant keep up with logistics trucks forcing them either to be unescorted or slow down, thereby either letting insurgents strike at will or grant them more time preparing ambushes, and after striking an easier time disengaging and evading reaction forces.

3; Forces more actual logistics transports it have to, but cannot effectively, escort since it uses more fuel.

4; Hogs a lot when accelerating and decelerating, making for a jolting ride, tiring passengers and crew giving less combat effectiveness when reaching the target area.

Yea, "in all ways" superior...

What is needed for escort duty in Iraq are; More Strykers. More M1117 armoured cars. More trigger-pullers. Better Humint.

Not 1960's era aluminium "box-on-tracks" M113's...

[JaM]

1. Spall liner protects infantry inside M113, it more RPG resistant than Stryker, with add on armor from Israelis could be RPG imune, M113 is better agains IED, antiinfantry mines cant stop it (stryker will be stopped - mobility kill)
2.72km/h is not slow,With tracks you can go offroad even in bad terain, stryker cant.
3.Fuel comsumtion s not so high as you think
4.better protection compensate this.
look at thelink posted there...

[JaM]

Compare stats in encykolaedia between Zelda M113 and US Stryker.I know that this is the game and not a reality, but it will give you simple view of Stryker capabilities (it is nothing more than BTR-80...)Why do you think Israelis declined Strykers for service? Sooner US Army will fight like Israel Army (urban area fighting) with Heavy APCs,360degree protection for tanks etc, better.I dont understand, why they looking for own way if there is a working solution...