Stellar Manipulation Qs

[jim]

In a couple earlier Q Posts, I mentioned that I was shaping towards a NON-Gold game showdown with a psychic AI let alone too long. Well, I'm almost there. The AI's heavy ships almost all have Sweep Vs, virus, and subverters. Combined with every AI system having training facilities, I cannot win a fleet fight no matter what I do. I have connived and stalled until I had Star Destroyers well into the construction queues, along with warp openers and closers.

Ideally, I'd "nuke" the border systems where I see main fleets of 100 or more warships, then shoulder into the heart of his empire with a big fleet with plague ships for stubborn worlds and a few more star destroyers for big inner systems.

Now, that looks unlikely, as his sensors are too good. So, I may have to be sneaky, but I almost never do stellar manipulation, so I do not know certain things. Thus:

1) Can I make a wormhole directly over a planet? The idea would be to convert a breathable into a fleet trap with cargo facilities allowing me to get a huge # of WPs there.

2) Can I make a wormhole on a star and then make a blackhole of it, preserving the wormhole? The idea would be to make a fleet trap. (I do not see a way to do it with a pre-existing blackhole)

3) Can I do Stellar manip while cloaked, either w/stealth armor of cloaking device?

4) If I have never been to a system and am not Ancient, can I make a wormhole and go through it on one turn? (I think I recall the trick of doing it after I have been to the target system) The idea would be to appear with a fleet deep in his space, possibly in a nebula system where he has not managed to kill the nebula, make planets, and build anti-Stellar manip facilities.

(At the moment, my second "track" is intel. I have left two other AIs in the game, amde treaties with them, and all three of us are eroding the psychic AIs CI. If we break through, I can try to destroy him via stealing ships and planets. I have ~600K to his 5 x 130K, but the other AIs have 5 x 10K and 5 x 80K. Fun game!)

[Phoenix-D]

1. Yes.

2. Yes. However the black hole only damages at the end of each turn, so ships can escape.

3. Probably not.

4. I don't think so, not in simultanious. In sequential of course this is simple.

[Paul1980au]

Fun game the plague idea sounds great what about dropping in with mines laying them and then closing a warp point ? let him wonder into a trap - the AI does this often. you will need an open and close warp point ship at once. But attacking the core empire sounds a good starting point. You might also want to seal off someone of his connected systems. This would make it easier to pick off 1 system at a time :>?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

2) Can I make a wormhole on a star and then make a blackhole of it, preserving the wormhole? The idea would be to make a fleet trap. (I do not see a way to do it with a pre-existing blackhole)

ooh, sneaky.

except i can't see it working against a human more than once.

4., someone has mentioned that if you set it up so the wormhole is made before your fleet arrives, you can do that in simultaneus.

[Alneyan]

I can tell you it is not possible to use Stellar Manipulation cloaked, at least it does not work with Warp Closers as I found out in my KOTH game. (And I deserve to be laughted at for the remainder of my life for losing three turns to destroy that worm hole while the EEEvil OnEEEs were breaking through somewhere else, but I digress)

I think you can open a Worm Hole (which is the very first order in a simulatenous game) and send your ships through this one, if you order them to go to the targetted system. They should use the fastest road available and will travel through this Worm Hole, if it is indeed the fastest course. Not that I haven't checked this one yet, so it is only the theory (and what I read once or twice on these forums, and perhaps in the Newbie FAQ). Hope it helps!

[Slynky]

If you have never been to a system, you can't "move" to it. So, when you create the wormhole, the only way to go through it is to use the "warp" command. AND, since the warp hole is not there to click on when doing a silmultaneous turn, you can't warp to it on the same turn you create it.

[Roanon]

For simultaneous movement:
Normally, it is possible that ships fly through warp points opend in the same turn. Though, if the ship opening the warp point has to move before it creates the warp point, it may be possible that the ships that should use the warp point fly away from that point at first, and return after the point has appeared. In that case, it can be useful to set a fixed point to move to, near the location of the to-be-created warp point, covering the needed number of days, and then order to enter the newly connected system.
BUT: it is NOT possible to enter an unexplored system via the "move to" order. You MUST give a "w"arp order first, you can issue move orders to a point within that unexplored system thereafter, in the same turn, and it will work. But if a movement order is given to an unexplored system where the ship has not manually warped into, it will be ignored, though it can be entered. Entering the command to warp, on a location that does not (yet) contain a warp point, is not possible.
So: if you have explored a system, you can open a warp connection to it and enter it in the same turn. Otherwise, you have to wait one turn.

[Alneyan]

Thank you for reminding me that you don't always have all the systems as explored. I must be spoiled by two team games where the Ancient trait is in and a few other games where I did know the whole galaxy.

Incidentally, I would have another query about Stellar Manipulation: is it possible to give Stellar Manipulation orders to a ship, then put it in a fleet and order it to move away? Would the order to, say, Close a Warp Point, be kept after this? It should work, but I would rather be sure about this as... Well, I have wasted enough turns and resources on these Stellar Manipulation ships to afford yet another delay with another fleet going on against my worlds.

[gregebowman]

You can do what I did in one game. I got a star destroyer, went into my enemy's system, and nova'd the star. Wiped out the whole system. Then you come in with your planet creators and make new planets. Just make sure that if you do that trick, that the star destroyer is the only one of your ships in there, or they'll be destroyed, as I found out to my dismay.

[jim]

Thanks all!

As I noted in my original post, I am familiar with how to do the same turn open-and-through if I have been to the target system or am Ancient. It was the chance that there had been found a work-around that I was hoping for.

I am not interested in making new planets, just killing the ones the AI has. Thus, I have not put any creator ships into the queues. Those are full of Star Destroyers and a few open/close ships.

I cannot use mines or satellites. Sadly, I had to go up to and over the limit and slightly beyond (I know that work around) earlier in defensive strategies.

Now, a new Q! I seem to recall that if a part of one's empire is not warp-connected to the rest, then there is a penalty of some sort. Is that a mis-recollection? One that has been patched out? Or was it only if it separated one from one's profitable allies (lose contact)? If only the latter, that would be of no help, as the enemy has no allies.

I ask because one dirty trick would be for me to avoid all the fortress worlds and simply lock the doors behind me as I make an excursion through his systems!

That is, as long as I beat the revenge fleets through a warp point, I could close it behind me and hurt the empire as I progressed. The value here is that I would not have to risk a Star Destroyer being killed or captured in the middle of the turn as I leave it to do the deed. Or, conversely, sacrifice its escort cover force in each heavily defended system.

Instead, I could keep the fleet together, and drop off Star Destroyers only if there was no poised fleet, threatening to pounce on it.

[ January 28, 2004, 22:42: Message edited by: jim ]