Strategic combat has more bugs than my backyard!

[CW]

Another thing needs fixing: I have noticed that you can only add planets from one of your home systems in the simulator, and you can't even fill it all the way up with population. In the beginning of my first PBW game my only planet in that particular system (one of my 3 homeworlds) was wiped out in the first few turns, and I was stucked without a planet to test things on in the SIMULATOR! How ironic!

[tesco samoa]

try that when you have not built any weapons platforms.

I will retry it. 1.41 Version.

I will start a new game and that will be the first thing i will do.

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L? GdX $ Fr C++ SdT T+ Sf* Tcp+ A M++ MpTM ROTS Pw+ Fq+ Nd Rp++ G+

[golf_prez]

other related frustrating notes...

(hoping someone can confirm this please!)
a formation is made up of ships numbered (within the formation) 1,2,3 etc...
how does fleet assign ships to the ship number within formation???
I thought it might be what order the ships are assigned to a fleet, but the ships don't add sequentially to the fleet !!! [i.e. add ships one, it is top of the list, add ship two, it is second in the list, add ship three becomes FIRST in list!!!! ] someone once mentioned it is based on WHEN the ship was built !!!!

[igoblin]

Yes I agree that more work still needs to be done for strategic combat but It has come a long way since Version 1.02.

I recently tested ship capture and planet capture and the AI works better than I expected. It will hold back the troop transports when capturing a planet until the escorts have been wiped out or all the planetary defenses have been eliminated. Also satellites are now placed next to the planet so they actually help in defense. (before if I remember correctly the satellites would be placed on the map in the corner where they wouldn't help at all.

The change fleets button in the simulator is a newly added feature and as far as I can tell it's not fully implemented yet. I haven't had the experience of ships acting differently in strategic vs. tactical combat other than the random factor involved with to-hit chances.

A couple more possible bugs I would to add (though I may just not have my ship strategies set up correctly for what I want them to do):
Multiplex tracking doesn't seem to work, at least not on a starbase. I had the largest starbase armed with ten Heavy mounted AntiProton Beams attacked by ten Cruiser with Anti-Proton Beams and Shield Depleters. The starbase would only fire three of its APBs a turn, usually enough to destroy one cruiser and then not fire any of its remaining shots even though it had Multi-plex tracking 5. Has anyone else noticed this?

Also when I pitted a boarding ship against a starbase, the boarding ship ran to the corner and didn't attack the starbase. I had shield depleters on the boarding ship so I would assume it would follow the secondary strategy of Optimal Firing Range when the base still had shields up but it seemed to use Don't Get Hurt instead. Is it possible the AI knows that the shield depleters would never get through the shields fast enough?

[Puke]

I think the simulator has more bugs than actual strategic combat does. I have not had problems with fleets obeying orders in strategic combat, its just that fleet orders always override individual ship orders. heck, the simulator cant even model orbital defenses, it sticks them on the other side of the map.

If you are trying to mount a complex planetary assault, sometimes it is best to bring the fleets in with orders to sit outside range and only fire on fighters or ships with weapons. then once you are in orbit, break up the fleet so that ships that need specific orders can do their own thing (ie: your ships with nothing but armor and PD can charge the planet and soak up fire, missile ships can sit at max range and unload, capital weapon ships can be ordered to target defense bases first, then fire on the planet if it has any weapons left, and your troop transport can lumber in for the big landing)

what would be *nice* (like not-gonna-happen nice, but maybe in se5) is if the simulator let you simulate an entire system. you could place defenses (including mines) at a planet, and actually simulate a few turns in that system, giving orders to both sides. that would let you model acceptable losses for your fleet plowing through a minefield, and destroying a smaller colony on the way to the main objective. you could simulate your ships ariving on the scene having already sustained the damage that you would reasonably expect them to have taken.

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"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

[geoschmo]

Strategic combat is never going to give you the fine tuned control that you are looking for. What you need to do instead of trying to figure out a way to manipulate it like that, is to learn the system and adjust your strategy accordingly.

With strategic combat you don't get to be Sergant Rock storming the bunkers, or even General Patton leading from the front. You are General Eisenhower, or maybe even President Roosevelt. Developing an overall strategy, building and amassing the fleet, setting the objective, and then sitting back and praying the troops manage to take the beachhead.

You are always trying to figure out the least number of troops and ships it will take to conquer the planet. That's the wrong way to think about this. You need to factor in some chance, and mistakes, and build a fleet and landing force large enough to account for that. You want to pick your enemies weakest point, and exploit it with your strongest force possible. Overwhelming force if possible.

Think of it those terms and you start to see the beauty and realism of this system. Get hung up on the nuts and bolt and you will go crazy.

Instead of "What's the minimum amount of ships I need to take this planet?" think "How many ships can I spare from other areas to conquer this planet with the least amount of tactical manipulation?" It's the big picture man. You gotta get the BIG picture.


Geoschmo

[Lemmy]

the movement isn't always correctly calculated either, i was once testing a design, which had 6 orange engines (forgot the name, +1 bonus) and a solar sail III, that is 5 combat movement, on occasion after changing the weapons, i got 6 movement instead of 5.

[CW]

After another hour on the simulator I can't stop myself from asking, has the strategic combat portion of the game even been beta-tested? You have got that "fleet for player" screen that is only barely working; ships that ignore orders, shooting at planets when they are told NOT to; ships running to the corner when they are not supposed to etc. What's even more strange, I ran the simulator in strategic mode a few times in a row without changing anything, the ships would behave entirely differently - the ships were told NOT to shoot at anything that doesn't move (planets, sats, mines etc) - the first time they dutifully chased after the target ship; the second time they chased after the ship then switched target to the planet mid-way and got themselves killed; then from the third time on they would just go for the planet and ignore the ship! I can reproduce the sequence again by exiting and re-entering the simulator. Adding in a not-very-smart AI and you have got one big frustrating mess for the player. I hope MM works on it FAST, in the main-stream market this is the sort of thing that really turns people away. Considering that I spent quite a bit more money on SEIV than a normal off-the-shelf retail game I would really like to have some justification for my cash.

[CW]

One more thing - I have noticed that 4 of my ships just don't want to get into a fleet. If I put them into a fleet and come back after doing something else, I would usually find them being "independent" again. Last turn I left them after giving the orders, executed the turn and found them exactly where they were originally as independents.

I should also add that none of the ministers are turned on, and this strange phenomenon is only happening to these 4 ships.


[This message has been edited by CW (edited 28 August 2001).]

[tesco samoa]

And what a pain it is to add units to a simulator. Try testing a new designed weapons platform.

Here is what you have to do.

1. design it
2. Built it on a planet.
3. Add that planet to the simulation.


What happens if you want to test say 10 or 20 weapons platforms?

Hope you have a good 10 to 40 turns to waste before you can try them out.

Yes I agree with you 100% The combat aspect of the game has to be cleaned up before it makes us stop playing the game.

Puts a damper on the game

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L? GdX $ Fr C++ SdT T+ Sf* Tcp+ A M++ MpTM ROTS Pw+ Fq+ Nd Rp++ G+