Paralyzed Units on the Battlefield at Turn 50

SurvivalistMerc · #1 February 23rd, 2004, 08:09 PM

In your own opinion, what do you think the most fair way of dealing with combat is in the following situation:

(1) Combat has reached turn 50.

(2) The defender still has active, moving units on the battlefield.

(3) The attacker has no moving units on the battlefield.

(4) The attacker, however, does have one or more paralyzed units on the battlefield.

What should happen?

KRNVR · #2 February 23rd, 2004, 08:37 PM

My "other result": (a couple options, actually)

A) Increase the encumbrance of all defenders by 5(or whatever), then run another 50 rounds. The defenders can kill the paralyzed attacker, or drop from exhaustion.

B) There's a killing chill in the night wind... Everyone loses one hit point a turn, until only one side is left alive.

C) Unparalyze everyone, increase everyone's encumbrance by 5 (tired), disable all magics (or hit the battlefield with a dispel every turn), and start again from that point.

Graeme Dice · #3 February 23rd, 2004, 09:08 PM

No unit's should ever be autokilled, except when the units are physically unable to retreat no matter what the circumstances are. This would only apply to units with no tactical movement at all. If they have no strategic movement, then they should be killed in the unable to retreat phase of turn cleanup as though they were unable to find a friendly province. If there are units that are unable to rout when the auto-routing effect kicks in, then combat should be extended to allow paralysis effects to wear off and give the units a chance to escape. Only after this extension should units be checked to see if they would never be able to escape. Astral mages with pearls left over should cast returning spells if at all possible.

SurvivalistMerc · #4 February 23rd, 2004, 09:17 PM

My personal feelings on this issue is that autokilling the attacker's helpless units would be justified.

The "chill wind" scenario will almost uniformly benefit SCs who have more hit points than the defenders and usually have regeneration in one form or another.

I like the paralyze-autokill situation. And it is generally Paralyze which causes attackers to be autokilled. Because it creates at least one effective counter to supercombatants...other than more supercombatants.

Arryn · #5 February 23rd, 2004, 09:26 PM

Assume, for the sake of argument, that a mage/SC/pretender has both Astral Shield and Fire Shield up at the same time, and is paralyzed. This "attacker" is still killing defenders despite being immobile on the field. It would be grossly unfair to auto-kill it just because it cannot move (yet). There are many, many spell combos that could be in effect that would still be killing defenders while the attacker just "sits there doing nothing".

Those in favor of auto-kill are taking a far too simplistic approach to a problem that is much more complex than it may at first appear.

SurvivalistMerc · #6 February 23rd, 2004, 10:55 PM

Arryn,

I don't think the majority of respondants to this poll are being "too simplistic" at all.

Taking this approach to the problem forces SCs to have backup or risk being paralyze-killed when facing astral magi. And that can be something as simple as an astral sage with a skullcap that gives 1 additional astral. It's not out of reach to any nation to get paralyze.

If you have backup, paralyze probably won't cripple your side in the conflict.

Other than paralyze and soul slay, what are other good counters to supercombatants? Because the great thing about Dominions is that everything usually has one or two decent counters.

Arryn · #7 February 23rd, 2004, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
Other than paralyze and soul slay, what are other good counters to supercombatants? Because the great thing about Dominions is that everything usually has one or two decent counters.

First, I think Paralyze may still broken, according to some of the Posts I've seen since 2.08 came out. Second, it very much depends on the SC you wish to counter. There's no such thing as just one counter for all SCs. For example, an SC that's not fireproof can be taken out with Incinerate. The list of possible counters is rather lengthy: whatever you can dream up ...

SurvivalistMerc · #8 February 23rd, 2004, 11:15 PM

Arryn,

I am speaking about a single counter that effectively works against all supercombatants, not tailor-made counters to individual supercombatants.

Obviously, spells to which a SC is not immune will work if they penetrate magic resistance. And of course things like ethereal crossbow if it hits and penetrates.

Kristoffer O · #9 February 23rd, 2004, 11:23 PM

The battle do continue after 50 turns.

Attacker retreats at turn 50.
Auto kill of attackers kicks in at 75 IIRC.

There might be a defender rout before this as well but I'm not sure.

Psitticine · #10 February 24th, 2004, 12:58 AM

Paralyze was fixed up after the 2.08 patch. It should no longer Last forever in the next patch, which is an issue to consider. As it is, they'll just sit there for eternity. With the planned fix, the paralysis will wear off as it should and the units come back to life.

I voted for 'wait 20 more turns' for just that reason. I can always hit 'Q' if I get bored and delaying for paralysis to wear off (once it does) is the most appealing solution to me personally.