The Merkava 4 MBT

[loktarr]

I readed somewhere that it can take 8 mens into itself as transport, is that true?
Could it be represented in the game? (I think that's not because it's a MBT class, but...)

[PlasmaKrab]

8 men?

Most unplausible, I'd say, until I read it too...

On this site, which I had always found reliable... Same info on Army Technology website, but same text too, so the source is the same.

When first reading the post, I had assumed it was merely 8 men including the crew, that is, 4 or 5 infantrymen in the back. But 3 stretchers tke more place.

I know the Merkava 3 is much larger than the previous ones, and the 4 is said to be even bigger. It also seems to field an autoloader, so maybe the crew is 3, giving more free room, but where does the ammo go? Or maybe they consider a special "field APC" variant where most of the gun rounds have been removed, and that acts like a heavy battle taxi among other tanks?

[kevin]

I just read over the website you forwarded, Plasma. The Merkava 4 does have a crew of 4, and it does have what I'd call a "semi-auto" loader. Each round is protected in it's own blast-proof box. The loader selects the round to be loaded and the boxes are on an electrically driven guide. The loader doesn't actually touch the round.

After looking at the pictures and the cut-away drawing, I've concluded that the Merkava 4 doesn't carry those 8 soldiers internally. I think they mean to say that it has room for 8 soldiers to ride on top. I think this is mentioned because it appears that the Merkava 4 doesn't have ERA, which wold be a first for an Israeli vehicle in a long time.

Sounds to me like an Israeli Defense Industry Marketing executive wrote up that information.

[PlasmaKrab]

Right, the crew is 4 men, I just ad been reading too fast. Anyway it says additionally...

8 soldiers riding on top looks few enough for a big beast like a Merk4 since even an Abrams can carry a whole inf squad (on the turret only), and I don't think the current Israeli "all-armor" doctrine would call for grunts riding on top of tanks.

Additionally, the "ride on top" hypothesis doesn't fit with the 3 litters that the text accounts for. The Command Group too seems unlikely to be plainly seated on the turret, exposed to any small arms fire.

So this may well be some marketer's brewup, if so I think there has already been heads rolling. I found no confirmation, and I cannot access the IMI website at:

http://www.imi-israel.com/

Edit:

This other article talks only about "enough space to carry a few fully armed infantrymen", which is not much difference from the previous Merkavas IIRC, although maybe now the infantrymen's space is more "official" so to speak.

[PlasmaKrab]

BTW, since I know there was some misunderstanding in here about the Merkava variants designations.

For those interested better look here for the translations.
"BAZ" seems to be a convenient acronymous commercial designation while "Dor Dalet" stands roughly for "uparmored".
Much more precision on the link above.

[Listy]

well here's something intresting, all the Mekarva's in the game can carry 10 blokes.

[JaM]

1.Merkavas were never fitted with ERA armor. They had spaced plates, Mk3 has passive modular armor.
2.BAZ is acronym for Merkava Mk3 with improved Fire control.
3.Dor Dalet is uparmored Merkava Mk3 Baz
4.Merkava Mk4 can carry 4-6 men inside. They never really want carry infantry outside. It is suicide. every roud that hits a tank can kill all of them.
5.Merkavas needs their own class in game.Only front hull penetration could immobilize them (not rear hull), they carry troops inside, not outside, so they are allways under armor protection and will not take casaulties if tank is hit.(Gun APC class is not good due to upgrade problems, you will never be able to upgrade Merkava to other AFV, olny to APC and similar...)

[loktarr]

Only front hull penetration could immobilize them (not rear hull)

What?
I don't understand that at all...

Made some research: Merkava is really heavy: 65T with a 1500Hp
(note that the abraham has also a 1500Hp with 70T, and cannot carry any men) and Merkava size it not so big, so two solutions:
- He cannot have so many people inside,
- He has not a good armor...
In SPMBT, his turret armor is bad: 80 I think but his hull armor is of 70 quite good...

I have made some experiment in order to see what his the best MBT in SPMBT:resultuts were very surprising, I'll repport on that tomorrow (+1 time line)

[JaM]

Abrams has 70 imperial tons.63 metric tons.
Merkava Mk3 and Mk4 has 65 metric tons, 72 imperial tons.
Merkavas are much better protected than Abramses.

Merkava has engine in front hull compartment, so only front hull penetrations could immobilize it.Engine also adds to protection of the crew.

[PlasmaKrab]

Abrams can carry a full infantry squad, on the sides of the turret like any other non-ERA tank (ERA tends to add to the damage done to the nearby infantry when a tank is hit). Only the US doctrine don't call for that anymore, or at least the tactical requirements have shifted away from the idea.

On another subject, the recent Merkava versions were developped in an anti-insurrection warfare context. Hence the somewhat light steel armor level, compensated by a huge anti-HEAT armouring.

What JaM meant about the engine, Loktarr, was that to immobilise a Merkava with a motor kill, you have to hit the front of the chassis instead of the rear as for most tanks.

Anyway I don't remember seeing many motor kills in the game. Many front hull or rear hull hits alike were either damaging or catastrophic, and mobility kills were generally achieved by blowing a track (track or side hull hit).

BTW, JaM, you should really have a look at the page I posted above about abbreviations, this explains what Dor Dalet and Baz are all about, what these version names are all about, and for instance how the "dor dalet" name is never used IRL.
I trust the guy writing this on account of his speaking and translating Hebrew while I can't!