Is Resupply Tech worth it???

[rdouglass]

I was answering a post on another SE4 forum and thought about this. This was my reply to a post but the question stands on its own:

From my experience, Quantum Reactors are far too expensive (in terms of research points and maintenance) to justify using them. Instead, I research Stellar Harnessing and Storage. Put 2 Solar Collector III's and 2 Supply Storage III's on any ship and they'll only get low on supplies in star-less systems. As another benefit, the next 3 levels in Stellar Harnessing give you movement bonus (Solar Sails I, II, and III).

Sure, you're using 60Kt more space, but for the time that it will take you to research Quantum Reactors, I will research 2 ship sizes, 3 movement bonus points (Solar Sails), and at least 2 more weapons levels that (IMO) far outweigh QR's. With the same research points I can travel forever, have a bigger ship, be faster, and have more powerful weapons.

Others may argue that the extra space for weapons outweigh the previous benefits. They'll say you can put 1 QR and supply the whole fleet so you'll have 80 KT per ship. I disagree with this action especially with big battles. It seems that the ships only exchange supplies during their movement turn. So, if you have a big battle that Lasts 2 or three of the AI turns, your ships with only 2500 standard supply points will run out soon and not be resupplied in between the AI "waves". My ships, on the other hand, will start out with 4500 supply points and will be more suited to inflict more damage or run away longer -take your pick.

IMO there is no question - the resupply tech is almost useless in SE4. In SE3 'cause there was nothing like the solar collector, resupply was a vital tech - you needed it for long range anything. Now it seems to be just the opposite. Are there any good reasons for researching resupply??????

Now that oughta' start a little discussion.......

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 11 December 2000).]

[Taqwus]

Go for both -- stellar harnessing first, resupply much later. You'll eventually want the QR, for

a) fighting in nebulas, black-hole systems, and so forth in a huge galaxy. In a huge 255-system galaxy, a player might even push for QR and stellar manipulation, and start exploding stars.

b) many fights in a row -- e.g. making 7 or 8 different attacks per turn with the same ship. Particularly if you use strategic combat, where the AI wastes oodles of supply on pointless shots...

c) more space for certain nifty goodies, like religious talisman (40 or 50kt IIRC), cloaking devices (40kt), and tachyon/gravitic sensors (40kt again). The talisman, in particular, is extremely helpful.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[Psitticine]

QRs aren't too expensive in the latter part of the game when the RPs are really pouring in, and that's the same part of the game when you've got all those space-consuming extras to install. I tend to research Stellar Harnessing early and then Resupply later.

I do tend to research Resupply enough to get the first Emergency Supply Pod early in the game. It's a handy component to put on a support ship, just in case! I try not to exploit the Repair Bay/Emergency Pod combo though . . . I find it takes some of the fun out of the game to use the loopholes.

[Baron Munchausen]

I tend to use Stellar Harnessing, too. I prefer to build dedicated "Supply Ships" and build fleets rather than spend vital space in every warship on solar panels, though. The reason that Resupply doesn't seem "worth it" to research, at least early in the game, is that supply is something you can get from a planet instantly. This means you tend to want to stick around your planets, which is as it should be. If the QR was available early, the whole flavor of the game would be changed.

Speaking of the QR, does anyone think it's a bit illogical that one little component can refuel an entire FLEET in a single turn? Sure, the tech is supposed to produce limitless supplies but does that mean a limitless VOLUME or just an endless stream at a real, definable rate? I think the QR should produce X supplies per turn and just never run out, not infinite supplies per turn.

[Courageous]

Yeah, it actually took me a while to figure
out how powerful it actually was. I simply
assumed it only resupplied the ship which
had it installed: this is not so. I agree
with you: it should produce a large -- but
finite -- amount of supplies every turn.

[Psitticine]

I agree as well - QRs are a bit illogical right now. Providing a large but finite amount of supply a turn sounds like a great idea for an improvement.

[Courageous]

Yeah, either that or make it so that a
ship with a QR neither needs supply nor
provides any.

C//

[rdouglass]

Great comments. But I still have a question for combat and supplies.

Does anyone know how the sharing of supplies work during combat. Even if I do have a QR on 1 ship in my fleet, it does not seem to share supplies during combat. My non-QR ships run out of power fast when I'm up against waves of AI ships. I like to use Shard Cannons (Crystal Tech) on heavy mounts and they eat up the supplies pretty fast. Then once they run out, my combat speed (I think) drops to 1 in the next round (AI wave). IOW, they don't seem to be resupplying between combat turns only between regular turns. Anyone else see this problem???

Of course the solution would be to QR every ship, but again, I like to storm the AI early and those "tanker" ships don't seem to cut it ('cause of the above). In low tech, large map games (IMO) it still seems a waste to research resupply when I can do the same with using a little bit more Kt space and a LOT less time and research points. Maybe it makes sense in an All Techs - Small Map game, but I never play those.

That's what makes SE series cool - there really isn't 1 best way to do things. Maybe I should play against myself or another human sometime and test the differences.

[Taqwus]

On sharing during combat -- there isn't any. There might not be any between attacks if you have to defend several times during an AI turn, either. The ship captains have other things on their mind during combat... if you want to *guarantee* that a warship won't run out during combat, it needs a QR.

(Evil tip -- if your opponents run out of supply *during* combat, but are otherwise intact, consider backing away and waiting out the 30 turns. Then attack again, immediately. Their shields will be down -- useful if dropping them by force would have required a slugfest.)

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[Jubala]

From my observations ships out of supply can still shoot to their hearts content. Doesn't seem quite right to me. Especially considering they couldn't in SE3.