Dominion effects

Wick · #1 October 17th, 2003, 10:44 AM

AFAIK the new effects are:
Order +7% gold/lvl, -5% random events/lvl
Production +10% res/lvl, +2% gold/lvl
Heat (unc) -10% gold/lvl away from norm
Growth +2% pop/lvl, +xx? supply/lvl
Luck (unc) +20% event will be good/lvl, +5%random events/lvl away from norm
Magic (unc) +1 research/mage/lvl, -0.5 MR/lvl

It looks like Order has been relativly improved but, with patrolling being nerfed, less so then just leaving it alone would have. The lack of patrolling also makes Turmoil worse since you can't maintain your big provinces at the same level as everyone else any more. I can't see anyone not buying this.

Since Order also reduces the benefit of Luck, nations with important heroes, such as Pangea and Jotunheim, are likely to suffer. I worry about Pangea under the new regime.

Production looks better for Ulm but otherwise I usually had enough resources to spend my gold. Of course. Sloth looks better for C'tis -- who else now has good low resource troops that aren't sacred limited? Machaka and Mictlan?

Growth is dead. Since you're near your castles when defending and outside you domionion attacking the supplies are rarely a big deal. It's 10 turn ROI from population growth is 11%/turn but it comes so slow. I expect to see a lot of death dominions.

Anything else? Have Heat, Luck, and Magic changed?

apoger · #2 October 18th, 2003, 12:40 AM

>Growth +2% pop/lvl, +xx? supply/lvl

Is that a one time 2% boost or 2% every turn?

>The lack of patrolling also makes Turmoil worse

What's the deal on patrol and unrest in Dom II?

>Since Order also reduces the benefit of Luck,

It did in Dom I as well. No change there.

johan osterman · #3 October 18th, 2003, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
>Growth +2% pop/lvl, +xx? supply/lvl

Is that a one time 2% boost or 2% every turn?

>The lack of patrolling also makes Turmoil worse

What's the deal on patrol and unrest in Dom II?

>Since Order also reduces the benefit of Luck,

It did in Dom I as well. No change there.

Growth increases income by 2% per scale step, and growth by 0.2% per scale step. There is another thread on this somewhere.

Patrol reduces unrest in the same way as it did in dom 1, just that it is more punitive to raise taxes. The turmoil scale only affects income and not unrest.

Also I do not think anyone should be worried about Pangaea, if anything they have become significantly stronger by various changes in their unit rooster.

[ October 17, 2003, 23:50: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

LordArioch · #4 October 18th, 2003, 01:20 AM

Pangea gets a unit rooster? I can't wait to get my hands on one of them...although you'd need some hens to get any troops out of that. Or maybe its like a fey boar but the chicken variety.

I predict we see lots of high order and production scales...just like before.

Saber Cherry · #5 October 18th, 2003, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordArioch:
Pangea gets a unit rooster? I can't wait to get my hands on one of them...although you'd need some hens to get any troops out of that. Or maybe its like a fey boar but the chicken variety.
I predict we see lots of high order and production scales...just like before.

Hahaha...

Pocus · #6 October 18th, 2003, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
(...) and growth by 0.2% per scale step. There is another thread on this somewhere.

you dont like the whole idea of population growing right? I wonder why. Having to invest 120 design points to get a +18% increase in the population of a province, after 30 turns, is not that interesting.

[ October 18, 2003, 06:51: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Nerfix · #7 October 18th, 2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:
(...) and growth by 0.2% per scale step. There is another thread on this somewhere.

you dont like the whole idea of population growing right? I wonder why. Having to invest 120 design points to get a +18% increase in the population of a province, after 30 turns, is not that interesting.

It is 18% more people that pay taxes. Now, when patrolling+200% taxes combo has been nerfed (thank god), this migth even be viable.

However, i do agree that the bonus could be bit higher, perhaps 0.4% or 0.5%.

johan osterman · #8 October 18th, 2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:
(...) and growth by 0.2% per scale step. There is another thread on this somewhere.

you dont like the whole idea of population growing right? I wonder why. Having to invest 120 design points to get a +18% increase in the population of a province, after 30 turns, is not that interesting.

It is appr 23% after 30 turns. And you get the 6% flat income increase, and the supply bonus, and are not eligeble for certain bad luck events. Growth scales were by many considered one of the no brainers in dom 1, now its effectiveness is reduced by giving it 3% less of an income increase per step, I still think it is a useful scale.

Population growth in excess of 9% a year seems absurd to me.

[ October 18, 2003, 10:15: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Nerfix · #9 October 18th, 2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:
(...) and growth by 0.2% per scale step. There is another thread on this somewhere.

you dont like the whole idea of population growing right? I wonder why. Having to invest 120 design points to get a +18% increase in the population of a province, after 30 turns, is not that interesting.
It is appr 23% after 30 turns.

Almost 25%? Well, that's not shabby at all.

Wick · #10 October 18th, 2003, 12:04 PM

"It is appr 23% after 30 turns. And you get the 6% flat income increase, and the supply bonus, and are not eligeble for certain bad luck events. Growth scales were by many considered one of the no brainers in dom 1, now its effectiveness is reduced by giving it 3% less of an income increase per step, I still think it is a useful scale.

Population growth in excess of 9% a year seems absurd to me."

Inspired by the Astral Clam and Fever Fetish, I generally try to normalize investment calculations over 10 turns. During that time, IICC, the pop bonus averages 1% per level, add the direct +2% and that's +3% gold/lvl/turn. With Order giving +7%, your troops need to be real hungry to make up the difference. As for 9% being excessive, no argument. The cost/lvl could be adjusted downward instead or something. Are the starting gold and population numbers untouchable?

You did raise another interesting point though: which scales influence particular events? Magic I know does (and I'm pretty sure effects Crossbreeding too), and you've just said Growth. Is Productivity/Sloth or Heat/Cold required for any events? I imagine that Order & Luck only effect the chance?