Suggestions for better AI resource management and better Ground combat

[Jourin]

An e-mail I sent to Aaron posting for any other comments/opinions.

1st SEIV is a GREAT GAME and I love.

2nd I have some suggestions for better resource management and ground combat. The incentive for ground combat is a disappointment and the AI resource management is very poor. I think these suggestions will improve both areas.

1. The 50,000 Empire storage limit is too low - I recommend changing it to 100,000. I usually play low initial points, good value home world. I quickly max out the 50,000 production before I even get the chance to build a storage facility. Even at 100,000 I sometimes max out in production before I can build a storage location, but at least I have a chance. I do not like 150,000 or higher because it takes away the challenge and incentive of building storage facilities and feels like cheating. However, I strongly recommend raising the level to 100,000 in the standard game to reduce the frustration of (especially new) players.

2. With a “Good” value choice I get a large planet with 1 Organic, 1 Radioactive, and I think an even split between production and research. I usually max out on production, but have to scramble to build a refining colony or scrap a production facility to build a refining facility. I would like the initial setup to be 2 Organic, 2 Radioactive, and an even split between production and research at least for the large planet with the “Good” value setup choice.

3. Some ideas to help the AI on resource management. The AI wastes resources because it doesn’t build storage facilities to store the initial excess. Possible choices.

a. Get the AI to build storage colonies. I added a choice of storage colony and told the AI to build storage facilities on all tiny colonies. Although slightly inefficient its better than no storage facilities. However, I think the following logic is better.

If atmosphere unbreathable and planet size Tiny or Small, then only build storage locations on these planets until a total of 45 are built. Build 25 production, 10 organic and 10 radioactive. Build in the cycle order of 4 production, 1 radioactive, 1 organic, 1 production, 1 radioactive, 1 organic then repeat cycle. With the initial 100,000 empire value recommended change, this gives a value of 600,000 to 300,000 to 300,000 and will cover all racial traits. Add the Cargo Bay upgrades to the AI research tree and this gives the AI a good nest egg for those rainy days.

b. Another option is to set the AI level different from the players. Set the level at 1,000,000 production, 500,000 organic and 500,000 radioactive and have the AT ignore building storage facilities.

c.. Another option is to raise the AI level according to the bonus. None would be 100,000 each. Low would be 300,000 each, medium 600,000 each, and high 1,000,000 each.

d. Another option is to give the AT unlimited storage capacity.

4. I would also like to see a decoupling of the AI bonus into two categories. The production, organic, and radioactive Category - and the research and intelligence Category.

Reasons: At high bonus I can not beat hordes or technologically advance ships. By decoupling I can try to beat hordes of similar of slightly inferior technology ships - or I could try to use hordes of ships to fight a few but technologically superior ships.

Currently I normally play low or medium bonus - and the bonus rally depends on the starting position.

I would prefer to see the AI with a low research and intelligence bonus so we are roughly equal in technology, but a high resource bonus because the AI usually needs masses of ships to give a good fight.

5. To increase the incentive for ground combat, reduce the effectiveness of space bombardment. Some suggestions.

a. Add a target Category of “Ships\Ftr\Sat” by removing the planets. Currently I have modded some weapons like the Anti-proton beam to be ships only so they can not be use on planets - but this removes the option of fighters and satellites.

b. Add modification to the “Damage Points To Kill One Population”.
Suggestions:
(1) For domed colonies leave at the current 10.
(2) For breathable colonies add a modifier of 5 increasing it to 50
(3) Add a new facility call a Ground Defense Complex. This gives the planet improved bomb shelters and limited SDI. A level 1 facility gives a modifier of 2.5, a level 2 a modifier of 5 and a level 3 a modifier of 10.
(4) Only one facility per planet will work, but the facility modifier and the breathable atmosphere modifier are cumulative. Now a domed planet with a level three facility takes 100 (10x10) points to kill a pop while a level three and breathable takes 150 ([10+5]x10) points to kill a pop.
(5) These facilities can be constructed at tech level 1, 2, and 3 or military science.

I would also have these facilities give a ground defense bonus of 10, 20, and 30% respectively. I think this would make it harder to bomb colonies and create a greater incentive for ground assault, thus adding a new dimension to the game.

c. For every culture but the xenophobes, I would give an empire wide negative happiness modifier for a civilian planet bombardment. The turn after the Last weapon platform is destroyed give the player three choices.
(1) Ground Assault - planet bombardment still legal in support of ground assault.
(2) Continue planet bombardment but receive empire wide negative happiness modifier.
(3) End combat.

I will be happy to discuss my reasoning in more detail if desired.

Thanks for your continued game support.

[Crazy_Dog]

Great idea(s) !!!!

[Windborne]

Great reasoning and good ideas, I always build storage facilities too, economics is king in space empires, especially as you get more production Online. If the AI started using low-maintanence fighters/satellites/mines more often, rather then soooo many expensive ships they'd get more resources each turn too making this even more important.

[Lucanos]

Jourin wrote:
"The 50,000 Empire storage limit is too low..."

I don't think so... maybe the AI is having a hard time to deal with resource storage - I'm just thinking: where are these resources stored? On the homeplanet?

A better and more interesting thing would be to have storage FACILITIES from the beginning of the game, or maybe storage bases?

I don't like the storage- cargo- pop- and supply rules in the game, because I think the game would be much more fun if they were the same.

More facilities and population on a planet means less sats, fighters or mines (cargo).

The same goes with supplies - more supllies on a ship would mean less troops (or any other cargo/population).

What do you think?

[Jourin]

You just gave me an interesting idea. In SEIII the production facility would innately provide all of the storage capacity, but I also like the idea of additional storage facilities. If a production site produces 800 minerals a turn, being able to store 3x or 2400 is reasonable, and game wise, 5x would be acceptable. If you look at a normal production flow, usually one is being produced and 3 are being effectively stored because one set is usually intransit, one set is in the process of being shipped, one set is being produced, and one set is available for production start. Now this is a JIT flow, but assume a critical component that has an inventory safety stock requirement and 5x or 4,000 is very reasonable. Three additional facilities provide supply, a spaceport, a resupply point, and a shipyard. Let each of them store 10,000 production, 5.000 organic and 5,000 radioactive.

Now assuming a "Good Value" start of 20 facilities following the normal breakdown results in the following values

Facility Production Storage Organic Storage Radioactive Storage
Space Port 10,000 5,000 5,000
Resupply point 10,000 5,000 5,000
Space Yard 10,000 5,000 5,000
1 Organic 4,000 (5x)
1 radioactive 4,000 (5x)
8 production 32,000 (5x * 8)
7 research
Total 58,000 19,000 19,000

Now add in the empire bonus of 50,000 and you have realistic storage numbers. I would also increase the storage facilities from 20, 30, 40 thousand to 30, 40 , 50 thousand.

I would rather just do away with the empire bonus and do the following setup.

I would recommend the following setup

Facility Production Storage Organic Storage Radioactive Storage
Space Port 10,000 5,000 5,000
Resupply point 10,000 5,000 5,000
Space Yard 10,000 5,000 5,000
2 Production Storage 60,000
1 Organic Storage 30,000
1 Radioactive Storage 30,000
1 Organic 4,000 (5x * 1)
2 radioactive 8,000 (5x *1)
5 production 20,000 (5x * 5)
5 research
Total 110,000 49,000 53,000

This would result in a reduced number of storage facilities needed, but will definitely benefit the AI and I think will improve the game.

[God Emperor]

Jourin, there are a few ways we can help the AI (eg by getting them to reserach cargo and by adjusting their Construction_Facilities files to build more storage), but, I do like your ideas.....Sound nice and logical too....

[Lemmy]

storage bases....

i like that idea, maybe a new component : mineral storage bay ( or something like that )
can only be fitted on a base, size = 100 kt , can store 5000 kt minerals,
costs : i believe a storage fac. costs 1000 each resource and can store 20000 resources, i think it must be more expensive ( capacity / costs ) so something around 500 (?)

what do you think of it?

[DirectorTsaarx]

Too bad a resource storage component requires a code change by MM. We've been asking for this (and for resource generation components) for a while now...

[Baal]

My idea for improved ground combat would be making it an integral part of the game in the first place. Simply make it so when you glass a planet everyone declares war on you. That way you would have to send in troops to take planets so you don't get a Galactic War II, like with Hitler. Hitler was smearing jews so the countries declared war on Germany to stop him.

Just my 2 cents.

[Lucanos]

LemmyM:
"i believe a storage fac. costs 1000 each resource and can store 20000 resources, i think it must be more expensive ( capacity / costs ) so something around 500"

A great idea.

The resource storage costs 2000 times each resource (if I'm not mistaken). But I actually think that the production cost should be lower or the same because of the following reasons (or... "why it's better to have a storage facillity on the planet"):

-Maintainance
-Research (the component should be in its own tech area, or perhaps in the "cargo" tech area since it only consists of three levels?)
-You'd hafta build the hull, engines, vehicle control components in order to get these storage bases/ships.

The good things about having a storage base would be:

-More storage space.
-Cheaper in the short run/to build (paying maintanance for the ship for 100 years would of course be more expensive).
-Saving facillity space on planets

That's how I think it should be (for the time being). "Why?" I dunno why...