Treaty Problems

[Mabus]

This seems as if it would be a common complaint, but I haven't seen it addressed anywhere...

Whenever I make a treaty with an AI player, they immediately began growing angry. Peaceful AIs like the EEE take longer, but within a few turns they will turn murderous and declare war--it's inevitable, unless I go ahead and break it off first. Also, once at war, I cannot figure out how to make peace--I have had AIs become Brotherly toward me, and they still would not accept peace treaties (though they didn't attack as much). It is not because I am the Mega-Evil Empire (though I have been that a few times too).

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I am very confused. Is it a bug? Something related to my play style?

[Azselendor]

The AI doesn't like humans doing better than it. Normally if you are ranked 3rd or 4th place, it'll treat you fine.

[Black_Knyght]

Personally, I always disable the "Mega-Evil Empire" thing.

Makes the game more fun and much more interesting if you don't have to worry about EVERYONE in the universe turning on you and declaring war if you do better than them.

[Mabus]

That sounds reasonable...though, as I said, I'm sure the MEE is not the issue here.

I suspect my (not very effective) style of play is partly responsible, then...I have a tendency (carried over from other C3C games) to expand very quickly in the early game--even at the expense of my military. Assuming I don't get creamed early by a nearby warlike empire, I wind up with a very healthy economy and a minimal military force. Though I can usually build up an army on very short notice, AIs rarely understand this, and think "easy and tasty prey"--which is sometimes true, sometimes not, depending on the game. However, SE3 didn't do this, at least not to this degree, and I suppose I was expecting 4 to be the same.

I still don't understand why a brotherly AI won't sign a non-aggression treaty, though.

[Gandalf Parker]

An alternative strategy which gets treated very differently (Im not saying its better in the long run).

I tend to explore as deeply as possible before I get too large to make friends. Find as many other races as possible and get in good with them. Some of them will drop you quick later but others will refuse to break treaties long after they hate you. Especially if you can get up to miltary alliance or partner.

I look for prime planets far from home. Especially in strategically important systems which control the paths into my area. I try to get early colonies on those and start building them up to be the fortresses they need to be later. Once wars break out then I can allow my colony ships to travel inside my super-large safety zone to fill in everything between home and the outer guardian colonies.

As I get some size and friendships get harder or shakier then I give gifts. 1000 organics (what do I care if they get organics?), some tech that can hurt them more than help, system info near my enemies (even system ownership near my enemies), scouts that have run out of fuel especially if they are in enemy territory to start arguments, even planets in enemy territory.

Or sometimes gift a planet deep in my territory if I know he is going to war with me soon. That way he can build it up and I can easily take it back later.

Gandalf Parker

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Mabus

Whenever I make a treaty with an AI player, they immediately began growing angry. Peaceful AIs like the EEE take longer, but within a few turns they will turn murderous and declare war--it's inevitable, unless I go ahead and break it off first. [...]
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I am very confused. Is it a bug? Something related to my play style?

In each race's racename_AI_Settings.txt, there's an entry called "Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets" which is usually set to TRUE. You might try changing that to FALSE, at least for the friendlier races. (I've never understood the logic of that defaulting to TRUE.)

Generally, the AI's mood won't improve as long as they can see you in systems that they've claimed. Gifts and favorable trades are about the only interactions they'll put up with, and they often won't accept those, either.

[Gandalf Parker]

I would like some more variation in the nations. I have over 300 and it seems as though the tactics remain pretty much the same for all of them.
Maybe:

A) one that is insulted by gifts

B) one that loves to share its systems (cowards hoping for a defender ally?)

C) one that surrenders easily (probably one of the neutral non-nations)

D) xenophobes who prefer non-intercourse types of treaties

E) one that offers to be sujugate or protectorate

D) one that gets mad at the casual General Messages instead of getting friendlier

These might already exist and I didnt notice, or maybe I havent loaded the right ones. But it seems like a lack. Id be willing to give up some logical reasonable builds to try and win, for some surprises. Maybe a nation that only floods space with escorts. Ive been very tempted to do as I have in other games (muds, strategy games, etc) to write a program so I can click an icon and have it randomly-within-limits re-assign the variables of some of the nations. Maybe just the neutrals, or maybe some nations whose description lists them as insane with factors you can never count on. If the game re-reads the national texts between hostings, or between loadings of the exe, then it might be fun to have some of them re-rolled in mid-game. The advantage of a program like that is that the rolls can be a touch over the line of what you would do for a staticly built logical nation.

At one time I was messing around with increasing the number of neutrals in order to create a wider range.

[Mabus]

At least the last one already exists, I'm pretty sure--the Xenophobic AI does not like to be messaged. Not so sure about the others, but most would be easy to mod in; I could do it.

In each race's racename_AI_Settings.txt, there's an entry called "Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets" which is usually set to TRUE. You might try changing that to FALSE, at least for the friendlier races. (I've never understood the logic of that defaulting to TRUE.)

Generally, the AI's mood won't improve as long as they can see you in systems that they've claimed. Gifts and favorable trades are about the only interactions they'll put up with, and they often won't accept those, either.

I don't think that's the problem--although it was part of the difficulty in one early interaction with the Amon'Krie. I didn't understand the logic at first, either; then I remembered what the Memnorak did to me back in one of my first SEIII games. They were nice and friendly Vulcan-types and I let them colonize a lot of planets in my systems for mutual defense against the Ophoolo. Then when my fleet was off fighting the Ophoolo, the Memnorak suddenly turned into Borg.... In other words, if your ally betrays you and already has a lot of strength in your systems, you've got trouble.

[Azselendor]

[quote=capnq;660229]

Originally Posted by Mabus

there's an entry called "Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets" which is usually set to TRUE. You might try changing that to FALSE, at least for the friendlier races. (I've never understood the logic of that defaulting to TRUE.)

Ahh, not even Space Empires is immune to "I support you, but not in my back yard or else" disorder.

[Mabus]

Originally Posted by Azselendor

Ahh, not even Space Empires is immune to "I support you, but not in my back yard or else" disorder.

Well, like I pointed out...an "allied" army in your back yard can be dangerous to you, not just your enemies.