Mod: Enhanced Gameplay Mod [project]

[Zeldor]

I am just planning to release that mod, hard to say when exactly, but I am gathering ideas etc. I really like CBM and many small cool mods, but they are rarely used. And playing with all of them is not easy. So I thought about making a modpack that would enhance gameplay and go a bit farther with balance than CBM. And it would be an option for people that want something else.

So please write here suggestion on what it should include, so far I plan to have:
- CPCS mod by Burnsaber, with cross-path spells
- Holy War mod by Burnsaber too
- that big pack with new magic sites, if it's balanced
- banned spells: utterdark, nexus, astral corruption, burden of time
- banned insane magic sites [like summoning circle or ultimate gateway]
- banned gem generators [clam, fetish, blood stone]
- Zlefin's mod with F&W summons
- latest version of CBM complete
- forgable const12 items [like bogus items, fire set etc]

I am also thinking about:
- removing tartarians from the game
- making some unused units summonable [for example Asmegs]
- making same gem incoem from capital sites for all eras as in EA [to make it fair for multi-era games]

Any other ideas?

[Aezeal]

you know what I want to say.. but I won't since I'm pretty sure that is not the intention

and then:
I'd not put the forgabel cont 12 items in.
I'd put the late game summons from I think llama or edi or one of the other regulars don't know which in instead of that F&W mod I think.. or maybe both.

[Aezeal]

maybe just put a bunch of race mods in too.. I mean why not. only use races that are generally considered MP balanced though.

[Trumanator]

Just some critiques:

Removing gem generators entirely seems a bit drastic, since there are some nations that really NEED them. (Kail/Bandar/Patala, sorta Machaka)

Removing Tartarians effectively neuters a host of nations' endgame. Though it does work a little better if you remove clams, thus reducing the wish spam. It also helps some already very powerful nations like Nief, Ashdod, Hinnom, etc.

Other than that, sounds great! Check w/Burnsaber though about using both of his mods, I think they might have some major conflicts with all the new spells he's thrown in.

[Alpine Joe]

If you are removing tartarians you might want to remove Wish, Although I would be against taking out tartarians.

Someone has a mod out there that enhances the reward of the Arena. Its minor but makes the Arena at least sometimes worthwhile, which would be nice.

Maybe include the flags mod for the better visual effects?

Maybe leave fever fetish but take out the other two gem generators? Otherwise Machaka= or you could change the required forging level to make them harder to use, perhaps 4 for fetish and 6 for clams and stones? Also I've always thought making artifacts require construction 9 was a pretty good idea.

[Burnsaber]

Awesome idea, Zeldor! I was actually thinking of doing something like this myself, but you beat me to it. If you need help with anything, just PM the word and I'll see what I can do.


I really like the idea of allowing the con12 items. Shortsword could be good for human nations to leverage against the giants, for example. Does anyone have the complete list of the con12 items and what do they do?

The Endo's magic site mod is probably balanced. Most of the sites are unigue, uncommon or rare. Should be a good addition with the removal of school-uber sites, so that there are some sites to look forward to. You should chek the recruitable units thought (just check the unit numbers they use and set them as recruitables for some nations) . Those are basically the only thing that could be unbalanced.

About making Asmegs recruitable.. hmm. Don't know, the graphic at least is hideous, don't know their backstory. But you know, now that I think of it, Golden Naga & Daughter of the Land could make good F & W summons. Golden Naga could be the mother of Fire Snakes and Daughter of the Land some kind of naiad-queen. Since you have the graphics already, it's just about statting them.

Balancing the gem income between eras for single-age games also sounds good. If someone throws a fit just because the EA Kailaisa gets one gem less at the beginning of the game while LA Bogarus gets one more, this mod isn't probably his forte.

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Removing gem generators entirely seems a bit drastic, since there are some nations that really NEED them. (Kail/Bandar/Patala, sorta Machaka)

Nah. You just run into the first sign of "brokeness", the "warping". the term originates from MtG, very powerful effects warp the game, creating this sort of hypothetical vortex that sucks all other stragedies into them. The gem generators have been rampant for too long, now people just can't imagine anything else to do. Seriously, there is a lot do with machaka other than fetishes, I'm just getting trounced by meglobob's machaka in Cripple_Fight and I'm playing Vanheim! I have freaking skinshifters, blade winds and thunderstrikes!

It's time to cleanse the game of their wretched presence, purge them in the holy fires of modding! Once the smoke clears, take a look in the cleansed game and see promised land. Opportunities, now boundless. Wish 'spam', nonexistent. Stupid micro that you have to do to be competive, no longer there.

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Removing Tartarians effectively neuters a host of nations' endgame. Though it does work a little better if you remove clams, thus reducing the wish spam. It also helps some already very powerful nations like Nief, Ashdod, Hinnom, etc.

You have a point here. Removing the only non-unique SC chassis will greatly benefit those nations who have ones as recruitable. But if he also incorporates the Llamas thug mod, it would fix this.

Perhaps you could just nerf Tartarians? Like lowering hp's, magic picks, stats and so forth?

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Other than that, sounds great! Check w/Burnsaber though about using both of his mods, I think they might have some major conflicts with all the new spells he's thrown in.

Holy War + CPCS = no problem. They just eat the ingame spell slots like crazy. IIRC with those mods combined, there are slots for 33 more spells added in other mods. But it's not really set in stone. since he is also removing spells, you can overwrite Arcane Nexus, etc.. giving 4 more slots. There are also 2 very "heavy" spells in CPCS. If you remove just those two spells, you get 9 slots free.

I also just got some ideas on CPCS. I might be able to remove 2 spells without affecting the mod at all by some clever hacks.

[Trumanator]

I guess I just kind of like having lots of gems. I like to set magic sites to 60 in any games I start.

Sort of a sidenote about the uber sites, the UG is currently saving my arse in an MP game, so while I suppose I would agree they can be very disruptive, I still like them I was even more excited at first because I thought the UG would stack with the bottomless lake or whatever with a 20% boost, 70% discount FTW!!

[llamabeast]

If you use my mod-combining script you'll be able to collate these without worrying about clashes.

[Aezeal]

Tarts are already nerved somewhat, maybe just increase their gem cost.

I just saw mythology pretenders as a thread in the forum.. might be an idea too.

[Zeldor]

Ok, to sum some comments:

- tartarians: the really bad thing about them is how insane paths you can get from them, like lvl7 without boosters! and they make late game really boring, all that wishign for chalice, casting GoH, GoRing, then trapezeing A2E3 tarts or using them as heavy spellcasters. You no longer have your nation. You have tartarians backed by your mages [usually just making gear for them or assisting as minor casters in battles].

- fetishes: they are micro, way more micro than clams, they are the definition of what should never exist in MP game, they are cool in limited quantities, not when you have tens of them

- llama's thug mod: sure, I will take a look

- joining mods: I wanted to use llama's tool from the beginning, that's why it is called a mod pack

- changed balanced because of some stuff removed - some things could be controversial, maybe QM will get convinced to create more radical version of CBM with real balance things, that didn't get through, if not, I may do smth like that for next version, boosting some weaker nations and nerfing clearly overpowered [so mainly ones with recruitable SCs]

I want a mod for a people that are bored with many late-game aspects, nations blending into the same mix of summons and only same things used. There are way too many games ending in draws or with people disappearing because they no longer want to handle all that late game mess.

Trumanator:
I have Summoning Circle in one and my whole game now is centred around that. That site should not exist. Imagine Mictlan having it.