On the effective early use of Pretenders in combat

[Reverend Zombie]

How do effective Dom2 players use their Pretenders in combat in early game expansion?

Particulary, how strong a Pretender does one need?

What spells are most commonly used on these pretenders for protection?

What types of items are generally required for pretection before sending your Pretender off into battle?

These questions are mainly to figure out how to prevent the Pretender from racking up afflictions, or dying.

How many standard troops ought to be brought into battle with the Pretender, if we are talking about basic missile troop and footman type of units.

Finally, do you send the Pretender in straightaway after buffing with any necessary protection spells, or do you try to get a few rounds of offensive spell casting in as well?

[fahdiz]

There's sooooo much here.

Firstly, let me start off by saying I very much doubt I am an "effective" player. But I wanted to answer your questions with another question, before offering my own pitiful advice.

What nations are you thinking of, specifically? Pretender choice/Magic paths are chosen within the framework of a national identity.

Any spells and items which protect your pretender from either picking up afflictions or being hit at all are good - Lucky Coin, Pendant of Luck, Body Ethereal, Protection, Mistform, etc. Regeneration and reinvigoration items are also quite helpful.

In general, if I'm trying to build an SC I go whole hog - I like to be able to send the pretender in by him- or herself.

For solo SCs, I really like the Wyrm with Astral 5 (casting Astral Shield, Astral Weapon, and Body Ethereal on himself before the enemy gets there), the Nataraja (with some Ice Swords and a Lucky Coin), and the Earth Mother. The Vampire Queen is outstanding, too, because of all her great innate abilities...so you can spend your forging time on other items for her.

But as I said, I don't know if I would consider myself good. I win more than I lose against the AI, but that isn't saying much.

EDIT: Oh, the Shedu and the White Bull make really good solo SCs, too.

[ March 25, 2004, 22:06: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

[mivayan]

The vampire queen with 2-3 earth perhaps 2-5 astral is great. Being immortal it has no problem with dying or afflictions, and it can kill most indies with some alteration research and ironskin-personal luck-earth might-attack.

[Alexander Seil]

Why not just pick a Red Dragon? You get a great "static" Pretender in the form of a sage plus a flying fire-breathing killing machine that can take out entire armies with ease.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Why not just pick a Red Dragon? You get a great "static" Pretender in the form of a sage plus a flying fire-breathing killing machine that can take out entire armies with ease.

The red dragon has not many item slots to power him up, and he might gain afflictions even in early game, depending on the indipendents strength.

Imho there are only 2 ways to have your pretender doing melee at the beginning of the game:

1. Pretender is immortal/recuperating with the first beeing better.

2. Your Nation has strong nature magic for fairy queens and gift of health.

Sadly, those points often go hand in hand with each other. You will have nations like Pangaea with both and Caelum with none.
I actually tried the Nataraja with Caelum, 4 ice swords, some air armor (cant remember which) and some other items you get early game. This worked for 2 or three fights until he lost one arm, and went downhill from here.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by mivayan:
The vampire queen with 2-3 earth perhaps 2-5 astral is great. Being immortal it has no problem with dying or afflictions, and it can kill most indies with some alteration research and ironskin-personal luck-earth might-attack.

And even less than that will do

A Vampire Queen with a black steel plate armour (an Ulmish master smith and many other earth mages recruited in round one can make one in round two) and orders "attack rear" will destroy nearly any group of independents you throw her at, even strength 9 independents. You can have her conquering provinces single-handed from round 3, and if she ever dies, just make sure you have a new set of armour ready so you avoid wasting turns. Add other cheap items (a horror helmet is another favourite) as circumstances allow, but don't waste resources on expensive items or research just for her sake in the early game - she does not need it to conquer.

[CayseP]

It also depends on the starting spell of the nation. If you are playing Abysia or Marignon for instance, you can take advantage of the offensive starting spell by making a pretender with high fire-magic. These types of battle-mages are also less likely to get afflictions, but of course need some backup to keep the opposition at a distance, unless you go with the Phoenix which does not mind going down in flames with an affliction or two, since it is immortal like the vamp queen.

[Huzurdaddi]

A Vampire Queen with a black steel plate armour (an Ulmish master smith and many other earth mages recruited in round one can make one in round two

You are not kidding! Wow is she good. She whoops on basically any independent. She also crushes almost any computer army. Once in a while the computer may get you with a bunch of flying magic weilding units ... but how often does that happen?

What really makes her go (IMO) is a combination of a life sucking attack, etherial so hard to hit, and 0 encumberance. The 0 encumberance really makes a difference at the start of the game. Many other SC's have the problem of running out of endurance but she just keeps killing.

She's my favorite SC right now. Anyone else want to share their favorite SC's? Maybe something is better (in the early game) than the vampire queen, if so I want to hear about it!

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
I actually tried the Nataraja with Caelum, 4 ice swords, some air armor (cant remember which) and some other items you get early game. This worked for 2 or three fights until he lost one arm, and went downhill from here.

Natarajas are a better choice for Arco: The fact that the Nataraja is not immortal and is rather prone to afflictions is entirely curable by your Arco priestesses, and a wide variety of forging paths on your national mages gives you a good selection of equipments to choose from.

The Vampire Queen is definitely a beastly SC chassis, with a host of innate abilities and a full set of equipment slots.

The Vanheim Allfather is another good one: Mounted, so armor encumberance can be ignored, a low base encumberance value of 2, which drops to 1 with experience (and is unaffected by armor), and built-in Glamour/Mirror Image and flying.

[Yossar]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
Imho there are only 2 ways to have your pretender doing melee at the beginning of the game:

1. Pretender is immortal/recuperating with the first beeing better.

2. Your Nation has strong nature magic for fairy queens and gift of health.

Isn't it usually past the beginning of the game once you have access to fairy queens and gift of health?

Personal regeneration (low level, 2 Nature I believe) or a Ring of Regeneration help quite a bit in preventing afflictions. They can usually do weaker independents no problem since they flee fairly quickly but they might get an affliction or two on something stronger.

And anything can be a SC with Arco since their priests heal afflictions.

Oh, and anyone with a high level of death magic and level 3 Enchantment can take weaker independents with just Raise Skeletons. A Prince of Death with 2 level 2 death mages (positioned slightly to the rear and to the side of the PoD to avoid stray arrows) backing him up can handle pretty tough independents by themselves with just that spell. It's like an instant army.