Crew Insurrection, Master Computers, Balance and Foo.

[Taqwus]

<ramble>

Some odd thoughts, that probably need to be used together to maintain some semblance of balance --

* Perhaps MCs should give invulnerability to Crew Insurrection, because there's no crew, and likewise a measure of Psychic Cloaking (fewer minds to detect. At least, that's the Telepath/Empath interpretation; the Clairvoyant interpretation of Psychic wouldn't care too much. Hrm.)

* ...but, if so, MCs should probably be vulnerable to cracking via either (or possibly both) higher levels of Computer Combat (e.g. 1-3 damage MC, 4-6 *subvert*) or an intel op (that requires not only Intel, but also Computers or possibly Computer Combat). And Computers/Computer Combat are available to everybody, not just psychics...

* ...and, since MCs would still be mostly less vulnerable (how many research Computer Combat now, versus use Crew Insurrection -- which is easier, and infinite range?) than they are now, how about an experience cap? Should a MC be able to achieve the same degree of skill as a human crew? Trajectory calculation, sure. Interpreting and anticipating enemy manuevers, maybe not. Even in 2400, I'd have to question that. So maybe to balance things and make MCs a not quite as clear choice (even for big ships where the saved space is nifty), they should be capped at, say, 10%/level -- so if you expect your ship to survive long and you really, really want that +40-50%, you need a live crew. Crueler people might suggest instead +5%, +10%, +20% -- i.e. a MC ship will never get better than the limit of a Ship Training Facility.

And refitting between MC and crew, either direction, zeroes the experience bonus.
</ramble>

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[Barnacle Bill]

I think the model for Master Computers (under whatever name) in science fiction games is the M5 computer from one episode of the original 1960's Star Trek TV show (forget the episode name). For those who don't know what I'm talking about, M5 was an experimental self-aware/sentient computer that was intended to replace all (or nearly all) of the crew of a starship. M5 was supposed to be able to learn, not just follow its original programming. It was invented by a middle-aged scientist (Dr. Daystrom)who had, as a very young man invented the crucial technology used in the current production generation of computers but had done nothing of note since (and had a complex over people saying he was a "flash in the pan" or just got lucky or whatever). So, Daystrom created M5 by impressing the functions of his own brain onto it (I would have used the brain of a highly experienced starship captain, but what the heck...). Anyway, to test M5 they installed it on the Enterprise and removed most of the crew. In wargames, fought using weapons dialed down in power to the point they can't penetrate shields, M5 wiped the floor with conventionally crewed ships of the same class. However, M5 turns out to be unstable, and gets more so progressively, so that it stops being able to tell the difference between wargames & reality and starts shooting full power. It was handily defeating 4 ships when our heroes figured out how to pull the plug.

Based on that model, the Master Computer should actually get an experience bonus. It would still gain experience normally, but would start at a higher level that wetware crews (increasing with each generation of the Master Computer component). It would be immune to psychic or political subVersion, but as suggested it would possibly be vulnerable to takeover via computer virus/hacking. Then again, it might be vulnerable to crew insurrection if you could figure out something a sentient computer would want or resent badly enough to defect. However, it should be vulnerable to a random event "Master Computer goes crazy", in which the ship is under nobody's control and attacks anything it sees.

[This message has been edited by Barnacle Bill (edited 15 January 2001).]

[Taqwus]

Hrrrrm. The 'beserk computer' scenario is quite interesting... one could take a page from SF literature and even implement full-scale AI rebellion (e.g. robotoid factories on strike, heh. It's Rise of the Robots time...), but that's probably more than a _wee_ bit extreme... more suitable for a specific mission/scenario than a random event.

But an MC'd computer occasionally getting buggy, and going mucker... that could be very interesting, indeed, without being too unduly unfair. Muhahahahaha.

(And maybe heavy use of MCs, computers and robotoid factories should cause unhappiness as people are being replaced? Maybe not; perhaps vaguely Luddite uprisings have no place in 2400, in races that intersystem space travel... But... it's another way to balance them, if need be.)

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[greghacke]

For you Trek fans or others interested in Trek Technology, try http://www.ditl.org/ . It's the Daystrom Institute Technical Library. Really good resource for ST technology. I know another site is going up with SF technology gathered from movies, books and tv. Should be a really good source for information. I'll post the url once I find it.

[Mephisto]

Change the "crew insurrection" to "take over ship" or something like this. I can't see why a MC could not be converted to be loyal to another empire. How often you have the feeling your computer is not under your control?
He, a simple virus is much much easier to do and install then converting an entire crew of high professional personnel (remember, there are 100 or so ships that are crewed from a pool of billions!). And the "berserking" MC is showing that I make a valid point here. If this damn thing decides on his OWN! that isn't loyal anymore, why can't you make it loyal to yourself and not its former master?

[rdouglass]

I like the idea of modifying the Experience Ratings for MC's. Up or down, I'm not really sure; maybe down. 'Cause right now, there's no incentive to keep using Bridge / CQ's/ Life support except on the smallest ships. Maybe letting live crews reach 100% and only letting MC's go up to 25%.

Another point is well taken about the use of Crew Insur against a ship with a MC. How would they do that other than with an advanced Computer Combat tech? (at least IMO). I think that advanced CC would add a nice variable to ship design. It could be a significant decision (to MC or not to MC) when designing ships if the variables are right....

[Sinapus]

quote:

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Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
Change the "crew insurrection" to "take over ship" or something like this. I can't see why a MC could not be converted to be loyal to another empire. How often you have the feeling your computer is not under your control?
He, a simple virus is much much easier to do and install then converting an entire crew of high professional personnel (remember, there are 100 or so ships that are crewed from a pool of billions!). And the "berserking" MC is showing that I make a valid point here. If this damn thing decides on his OWN! that isn't loyal anymore, why can't you make it loyal to yourself and not its former master?

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"o/~ Daaaaaaaaaisy/Daaaaaaaaiiiiiisy...o/~"

[Mephisto]

Sorry, not a native english speaker: What do you mean?

quote:

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Originally posted by Sinapus:
"o/~ Daaaaaaaaaisy/Daaaaaaaaiiiiiisy...o/~"

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[Sinapus]

quote:

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Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
Sorry, not a native english speaker: What do you mean?

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It's from 2001: A Space Odyssey. When the ship's computer, HAL9000, goes mad and kills most of the crew, the Last surviving crew member gets into the compartment where Hal's hardware is kept and proceeds to deactivate the circuits running Hal's higher functions. As his mind is taken apart, Hal begins singing this song called "Daisy" reeeaally slow.

I just thought it was probably something you don't want the Master Computer on your best dreadnought to start singing.


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--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough
to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a
pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors
come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless
eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your
associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

[This message has been edited by Sinapus (edited 15 January 2001).]

[Mephisto]

AH! I don't recall what he is singing in german but that does fit quite well. Hehe!