Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Hah! Seriously? Allways happens at the worst possible time, doesn't it? :)

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

There really isnt much point in conitinuing then in my opinion. The game may as well be over if marv gets an easy conquest. the chances of finding a sub, and especially one of zeldor's caliber are very low. even if a vet could be found, no sub can do as well as the orgional. if amhaizer won't roll the turn back, we may as well end it. congrats on winning such an easy war. maybe it will teach zeldor to do turns on time.

not sure its a fair win though

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

PriestyMan is right that stale is partly my fault - if I had time to do it earlier, I wouldn't risk some llamaserver problems or other stuff.

I have full right to decide about my nation though. I don't see a point in continuing my struggle just to make someones victory a bit more legitimate. Or to play kingmaker, when no one was really interested in my support. And I certainly don't see how game admin would suddenly gain right to give my nation to someone else and introduce rollbacks to do so.

I think that Amhazair had it won for a while - because of combination of luck, skill, sheer determination to win + incompetence of many opponents.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Zeldor, you have the right to decide if you continue or not, but you do not have the *right* to turn yourself AI w/o any attempt to find a sub (or opportunity for the admin to do so).

@PriestyMan: Could you clarify please, are you saying that you think Marverni has won even if we rollback & find a sub?

@Amhazair: It does seem you have things well in hand, but under the circumstances perhaps you'd care to share your VP total with us? :)

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I would agree that it would be quite constructive to share not just one but all VP totals to get a sense of where the game is at.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Well strictly speaking nothing in the game rules specifies that players will have to display their VPs. So I guess that doing so or asking anyone to do so falls into the category of diplomacy: you are free to do it or not.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

If this is the general sentiment, then far be it from me to drag the game on by the scruff of the neck far past it's expiration date, so I'll ask again, as I did the previous time Zeldor was planning to walk away: Are there more players who just don't think the game is fun anymore? From the posts after this I have the impression several players are cautiously of the opinion the game could still be fun.
Sure. From memory I currently hold 17VP. I'll fire up the game later to make sure. (Edit: Indeed, 17VP atm.)

I'm obviously in a solid position now, but I don't think it's anything a good dogpile won't fix. (The artifacts game has left me in absolute awe of the power of dogpiles. Those who have heard of it will know what I mean.) If several nations contribute competently there's just way to many provinces that can be taken in one turn, and I don't have hordes of clams hiding behind my walls obviously. One of Zeldor's frustrations though was (I believe) that he didn't see that dogpile developping so far, so I don't know if anything like it is about to materialize.

And quite apart from any chance of victory, I do believe there's a few newer or "intermediate" players who are now for the first time sitting on a largish end-game nation. Testing out some things and learning what works could be a great experience for them even if they never get close to victory.

Well, I was about to reply this, but seems Aethyr pre-empted me.

I'm also pleased to anounce that Executor is prepared to take over if I don't find anyone else, although he is quite busy and would prefer it if I could find someone else. Search is thus ongoing for now.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Caelum is willing to continue the Ascension Wars to their bitter ends.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

this seems rather pointed. I've been playing for a couple years now, and i've been in large endgames enough times to understand the work they involve. including lategame with clams. anyways. lol


executor might make it a real fight again, but(and i know everyone will hate this) i think we ought to roll back twice so that marverni doesnt get two free turns or rocking formoria. from what i heard from Zeldor, it sounds like those free hits are pretty massive and crushing. Executor hasn't seen the turn after anyways, so marverni is free to not change their plans, and exec would be responding in a logical way without previous knowledge.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Hey guys, just sort of stumbled into this thread (actually from a post in the other forum :) ).
If possible I'd like to further encourage you to get the game to conclusion and not turn a powerful nation to AI, thus breaking the game, thus most players (but winner) have played so much and got so far for nothing. At least do a decent effort to fight Amhazair, it may be actually fun to fight such an uphill war. It's the sort of stuff bards sing about for years to come :D

I'm just a visitor here, I hope I got the facts at least halfway right and am right at least half the time ;)

GL all.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I am willing to continue, as I'm still having fun.

I have mixed feelings about rolling back two turns, but I trust PristyMan's view on this. However, in fairness, I would like to hear Amhazair's opinion as well.

@ WL, are you volunteering to sub? :D

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

My opinion is that rollbacks are the spawn of the devil and should be avoided at nearly all costs. :)

Especially Rollbacks where (one or more) players get the opportunity to redo their turns, after seeing the previous one, and thus knowing what everyone else was up to, they just open waaay to many possibilites for arguments and recriminations. I have to say I'm hard pressed to think of a situation where I would think this was a good idea. (A litteraly game-breaking bug maybe? The game being the cause of a cosmic tear causing our solar system to be swallowed into the dominions universe right after Ermor's fall would probably qualify.)

I also checked with some other game admins to see what their thought was on the matter (After all, I'm a newbie as game admin, so allways prepared to listen to wiser heads than mine ;)) but they all pretty much agreed with me on the subject.

Luckily, with Fomoria gone AI, Llamabeast has agreed to go to the trouble of rolling back this last turn, using all our submitted turns, so no one can take advantage of posterior knowledge, and allowing the sub (who has no previous knowledge) to submit a new turn. (And a massive thanks for Llamabeast, who doesn't normally do this, but will do it due to the special sircumstances, as well as my adorable puppy-dog eyes.) This will limit the sub to a single stale.

I had also planned to not to perform any offensive action this last turn and refund the income from the provinces I took in the post stale-turn, but unfortunately, due to my screw-up with extending the timer my original turn-with-offensive-action got allready taken into account, and will be used by Llamabeast along with all the other turns. I will do something similar for next turn though, I'll hash out the details with the new player.

In further news, none of the other players I asked seem to be willing or able to sub in, so I asked Executor to confirm his take-over.

Oh, and to answer in Wraithlord's stead: He was one of the players I asked, (Can't imagine a tougher nut to crack amongst the current crop of players) but regretfully he had to decline.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

See, that is funny. You are willing to go through lots of trouble [even imaginary, as it's standard that when you roll turn back all turns are kept, without any action needed from llamaserver].

So instead of offering me anything that would convince me that I should stay after a stale turn, you prefer to find someone else to replace me and offer him better conditions. All for game not endangering your victory in the game and addition of it to HoF. Great way to admin the game.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Well, inconsistency is not exactly a good thing, but he has a point in that you're tendency to wait until the very last minute to even send in a preliminary turn is a large part of what led us to this impasse. However, if Amhazir is willing to give more generous terms to a sub rather than the original player that is pretty underhanded.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I offered you the exact same: One turn with no offensive action from my part while you were free to do as you wished.

I also fail to see why I should "convince" you of anything. Either you want to play on, or you don't. It's your call.

For reference: Is what I did NOT agree to as it's plainly ridiculous.

I will also say that any agreement I, as a player, make with an opponent is a voluntary friendly gesture from my part, and has nothing at all to do with my job as game admin. If I, or any other player, would answer you that I/he doesn't feel like changing his turn just because you didn't get your turn in in time I don't see why I/he should be blamed for that. (Appart from the fact that I'm indeed in the delicate double position of opponent and game admin, and should thus indeed be consistent to whoever plays Fomoria.)

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I can't stand roll backs and am never for one; even if it were to benefit me. I just don't see the point in them. Even in this case. An AI formoria is bad. But it also could be the trigger that causes the dogpile upon Marverni as even I would be loathe to sit by and watch as he absorbed the AI and all the victory points without a reckoning first.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

hey, rytek showed his face. maybe now he'll answer his pm's

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Zeldor, you seem to be getting a bit.... How shall I put this... "bent out of shape" for no reason other than you feel that you will lose to Amhazair, and that you don't like to lose. In my opinion, going AI is one of the worst things you can do in this game as it disrupts the progress of the game. It's sort of like tipping over a chess board when you lose your queen.

Sure, he may be able to win, but this game is rather huge and there are a lot of players. I'm had been getting kind of bored with it (up until I was attacked), but I'm certainly not ready to toss my arms in the air and storm out of the room like a spoiled child.

I used to be a game "hot head" when I was in college--I was really good at games most of the time and I was, obviously, conditioned to be competitive and to consider myself better than everyone else, but that just made me an arrogant ***. Of course, testosterone being what it is, I may have simply mellowed in my age...

The purpose of the game is to stimulate the mind, not to win. Working from an "underdog" position always excites me--what can I do against an opponent who has power beyond reason? It is in these situations where one gains the most from playing the game. You don't get nearly as much from being dominant.

I suppose that this makes me a rather poor ally since you can't always count on me to "do what everyone else does" and always take the "Min/Maxed" obviously dominant strategy in a game, but it has been interesting thus far except that I haven't really been attacked by anyone up until now, and as soon as I start fighting.... Here we are with the people calling for the end of the game... Why am I playing again? Certainly not to play the exact same way 13 other people did before me...

Bleh, now I'm rambling.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Nah, I don't mint losing games or wars. I knew my chances pretty well and I knew Marv is going to attack me sooner than later.

My complaint is that I just don't agree to go with a stale a turn after getting invaded. I can fight normal wars, but only against opponents, not situations like that.

Maybe at least some people will start caring about the game now - at least posts here look like that.

I know rollbacks are evil and I would never insist on that after a stale. It was enough for Amhazair to be understanding and offer some solution to make the war fair instead of being arrogant and thinking about easiest victory to make me stay in the game and fight till the end.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I must've missed something as I was not aware of the stale (reads backwards).

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Hello again everyone. I just received the turn from Llamabeast and it seems I'll be stepping back as Fomoria this time.

Now, I'll have to apologize in advance as I'll certainly need some delays. The next 15-20 days I'm going to be extremely busy as I have a couple of exams I *have* to pass, and there are other stuff that demand my attention, like Serbian New Year tonight so happy New Year to me! But seriously I'm rather busy and have a lot of stuff that demand my attention besides my exams which start in just a few days, and that's why I preferred someone else take over Fomoria (I still do), or Zeldor take it back again.

I will do what I can to stop Marverni, but from looking at the turn I can pretty much tell everyone that if I don't get some support Fomoria will get rolled over and that will most likely king Marverni as the winner.

It's not easy taking over a nation at this point in a game, especially in this large a game, with two stales and a massive invasion. And I have no idea what Zeldor planned, what his strategy has, or even what Marverni is throwing at me at this point as I can't see a lot with the second stale.

So several of you will be hearing from me shortly,
and Everyone is offered peace and a NAP, and a renegotiation of the borders, except Marverni.

Cheers all.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Welcome back Executor, and thanks for stepping in to help keep the game alive.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Amhazair, could you please clarify what I need to do with the most recent turn? Do I need to resubmit, and if so what turn number, or will Llamaserver handle the rollback without any action on my part.

Also, should I expect a "new" turn file, or play the turn that I've already recieved? Sorry, but I'm a little confused at this point. Thanks

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Sequence of events:

* Executor has now received turn 63 from Llamabeast.
* He will now play that turn (having not received turn 64, he should have no knowledge of events in that turn.) and send it in.
* I rollback the server from the current turn 64 to turn 63, submit Executors new Fomoria turn (which replaces the one turning Fomoria AI) and immediately force hosting again.
* The game will then resolve the turn, using everyone's previously submitted turn 63's + Fomorias new one.
* We all get a new turn 64
* We play on using that new turn.

And all hail to LLamabeast for spelling the above out for me. :)

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Just a small clarification: With the turn 63 you got Zeldor staled just once, not twice. Also, the fact you don't know what I'm throwing at you has more to do with the fact I disguised my real armies by attacking the provinces they moved into with remote attacks first, than with any stale. You should actually know as much about what I'm throwing at you than Zeldor did. (Though Zeldor probably knew more about what he himself was doing than you do.:D)

PM'd with more details.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Let us know when we should be entering a turn.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I'll be submitting the turn to Amhazir during the day so he can force host it. So expect a new turn during the day.

Although I have to admit rollbacks, even in this case, are the work of the devil IMO, as I've only been in 2 games that were ever rolled back and they both crashed...

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Hurray! Everyone should receive a new version of turn 64 in the next few minutes, and we should be ready to continue now.

Before playing your new turn, it is advicable to first delete the .2h file you currently have in your game folder. Some of the glitches that are sometimes experienced with rollbacks (Orders not being accepted and the like) might be caused by players not doing this, so in your own intrest, don't try to save 30 secs of your precious time by not doing this. Better safe than sorry.

So to be very clear on how to proceed:

1) Delete the .2h files currently in your games folder.
2) Save the new turn file in the game folder, thus overwriting the previously received turn 64.
3) Play your turn as normal.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Huh, this is weird: We're at 72h hosting, I forcehosted the game on monday 17:10h GMT, so the next hosting should be today at the same time, right? I'm also almost completely certain I checked hostingtime on tuesday and saw it being thursday, and yet, now it stands at friday at 17:10h. And yet the admin log doesn't show anyone changing the timer. (And I know for certain I didn't.)

I don't mind too much, maybe some people like a day extra to get back in the swing of things, and Executor said he'd be busy these days, but I am curious. Anyone have any idea of what can cause this? I don't suppose the Llamaserver or Llamabeast add an extra 24h to all games due to the patch or anything?


Oh, and talking about the patch: For those who haven't found out yet: For the current turn it doesn't matter whether you upgrade your Dominions or not, both ways work just fine. You will have to upgrade to be able to open the next turn. So, in essence, you can't do anything wrong.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

i'm pretty sure llamabeast delayed all games by a day or two when he patched

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Ah, goody. You saved me from a sleepless night. Curiosity can be a quite annoying trait sometimes. ;)

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Grrmbl. Anyone happen to receive an unexpected Ring of Sorcery from me this turn? Looks like it didn't arrive at the intendent recipient. :(

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Not sure what just happened. I was certain I set that army from my cap to attack you and not patrol Marverni.

As for that other battle, hampering army movement with scouts is considered an exploit Amhazir.
I presume that was not your intention with the 2 GRs you cast at the province but still. At least you should not have used a scout from the province I was moving to. I probably wouldn't have won either way even if that army had joined, but Im sure I would have taken out a very large portion of that army.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I'm assuming you mean your army in Turmish, right? (Since you mention 2GR) I had actually ordered my entire army from Hlondeth to move there, with the intension of not letting your two armies combine. (And, if I was lucky, have a battle where you had used up your gems against the ghost riders.)

Looks like my army cancelled your move, and then your other army comming in from the Wetwoods then cancelled mine, but at least I achieved my objective of only fighting one army at a time. :cool:

(Assuming from your comments that the army I fought was comming from Wetwoods, wasn't sure if that fort was emptied out before.)
If you were planning to attack Chessenta, perhaps your move got cancelled by my small probing army you smashed? If you were in fact planning to support your pretender (and I did wonder what he planned to do on his own) then I have no idea either.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Not that it much matters, but can we get 24hr notices instead of 12hr? I'm probably about dead anyway, so it may not matter if I'm the only one who'd prefer a longer notice interval.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Sure thing Dr. Should have remembered doing that when we switched to 24h I reckon.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Ah, in that case I do apologize Amhazir. I must say I'm rather curious as how my plan for you to auto kill yourself with gift from heaven would have worked with both armies. :)

No actually, your small army didn't cancel them out. They did patrole for some reason, spies were captured.
And the weirdest part is commanders that weren't under the patrol order, once I opened the turn, were patrolling as well.
Why my pretender moved is beyond me? They were all selected into a single group, so they should have either *all* patrolled or moved.

Being all paranoid and stuff I'd have to be very suspicious about the rollback.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Shouldn't any potential rollback-related wonkiness be confined to last turn? I don't have any technologicaly nor inside knowledge, but logically speaking I would find it weird if any new effects could be caused a turn or two down the road. After all, this turn was played perfectly normal in all ways, no?

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I know I'm probably giving away waay too much important strategical information, (At least if you own a magnifying glass...)but come on: Isn't this a glorious view? (Yes, my scouting network has grown massively since BoT stopped killing my scouts ;))

This one immage sums up why I like playing massive games. It's grand. It's epic. It's earthshaking. It's Dominions!

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Well, Llama sent out a mail to all players, so you should allready now, but to repeat: This doesn't really match my experience, since my turn was also sent in after the troubles started, (And thus never registered as 'received') and was still accepted and processed just fine, so I have no idea what caused the difference. Unfortunately my attempt to postpone the turn didn't get taken into account either, and it looks like 4 players staled, no idea if they had sent in turns or not.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

@ Amhazair: I've just received this email from you: "Hello,

Looks like you've staked two turns in a row, and apparently you've also stopped sending in turns for the Good Intentions game. Is something wrong at your end that prevents you from playing? should I be looking for a sub? Please let me know what's up, so I can take appropiate action.

Hope there's nothing serious going on."

I guess you make a mistake about the name of the player :)

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

nah, he sent out a message from admin, which sends it to everyone. i got one too

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

d'oh, nmind

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Yeah, my appologies for that. I sent out mails for two players (Rytek and Trumanator) who seem to have disappeared. The first one I correctly sent to the player in question, but apparently forgot to un-click everyone for the second one.

On the bright side, I now know most of you are still awake. ;) No less than 7 players reacted to that message in various ways. :D Unfortunately the intended recipient wasn't amongst them... Guess I'll have to look for subs again. (I'll give them untill the evening to react and get busy then.)

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Luckily Trumanator is still around. (Just not having submitted a couple of turns since his lands could mostly take care of themselves. ;) ) so I'll just be looking for a Helheim sub.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I apologize most sincerely for not submitting my turn yet, but I would appreciate an extension and I will get to it tomorrow. Otherwise, stale me b/c I'm drunk and nothing would probably be better trhan what I would do atm.

I'll submit a turn tomorrow after I get up....

Have fun,


~ Verjigorm

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

Nrasch will be taking over Helheim. Added another 12h to give him time to play his turn. Unless he needs more we can continue on from there.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (14/24 nations remaining)
 

I have pulled something in my shoulder/back last night and now I can't seem to sit straight at my dask for longer than 5 minutes at a time to play my turn. I've postponed hosting till tomorrow, hopefully a good night's rest will make it all better.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (13/24 nations remaining)
 

Well, we're almost halfway, 13 players still remain.

Thanks for subbing in Dr.P.

Re: Troubling Times: Large EA CBM Game (13/24 nations remaining)
 

I didn't do much except script a few capital defenses, successfully killing precious, precious beast bats :).