I so love flogging a dead horse
 

v1.4
Man: 40 summons, 62 longbowmen.
Ulm: 20 summons.
All commanders were supposed to stay out of the fight, but I had forgotten
Beowulf had an armour negating longbow and I needed him to lead the army.

Ulm wins with 9 casualties. Five of these courtesy of Beowulf's longbow.

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

Well, that's pretty brutal. If you've got a good test bed, can you try against F9W9 blessed Vans? or E9N9 blessed giants?

Brutal results, but its still unit to unit. If they handily defeat dual blessed troops then a change is needed. Yes its free points, but that's almost the point of the exercise... MA Ulm kind of sucks - maybe the extra points are needed, maybe they need a free "blessed" unit. If 20 dual blessed vans demolish 20 ulm summons, I still don't see a problem. Hell, if they're even I still don't see a problem. On the other hand, if the vans get demolished, it needs a change. I'd probably say 1:1 vans 2:1 giants 1:3 jags.

Do you have a specific test bed set up, or just using a basic map editor?

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

Ok, 10 F9W9 Vans go down with few losses to the ulm summons..repeatedly. I'll check with giants/jags later.

Triple blessed jags (FWS) go down much too easy, in large #'s as well

dual blessed jotuns (EN) go down way too easy.

So, here's what I'd do (still noobish on stats)

Glass cannon
Drop HP down to 5
Give them old age
Drop magic on weapon
Go the retired veterans route

Lazy/untrained
Drop attack to 10
Raise enc to 4-6
Drop magic on weapon
(Tried this with Mict trip blessed. Attack made a huge huge difference, fatigue - not so much, they lost 20v20 twice, which makes sense against a trip bless/dual life unit)
go the clockwork route, or levies given a limited supply of magical armor

Weak/untrained
Drop attack to 12
Raise enc to 8
Drop magic on the weapon
go with weak levies with limited supply

General Nerf
Drop attack to 12
Drop Basic Def to 8
Drop HP to 10-12
Raise enc to 4-6
Drop magic on weapon

Protection - even with atk 15 flaming jags these guys were getting hit for 1's and 2's with the occasional higher. Same with Vans, and the jot's could barely do any damage.

HP - with the high prot and low damage they were taking they stood up forever

Def - with the high prot this is almost like having a luck charm... 18 def, a bit too high

Magic weps - not very pertinent in the early expansion, but very valuable against mid-late game. I'd either drop it or work the description around it. Starting with magic wep troops is big. Description says greatsword, wep says halberd.

As it is, groups of 10 of these can expand easier than Van at a much cheaper cost. They would make mincemeat of most bless rushes. I still think they should be very powerful, but more = to a good dual blessed chassis. Then the extra points could be used for better scales then a bless nation or more magic/SC. They are limited to 3/turn now which is more limited then a bless nation, so maybe 2 soldiers should = 3 dual bless units (Vans in my mind).

Just my opinion, but keep em uber - just knock em down a notch.

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

There is going to be no more nerfing before the game starts.

The problem with these tests is that it does not take into account that human opponents will supplement their troops with battle mages that cast lighting, fireball etc.

And Ulm cannot effectively supplement their troops in battle. Because Smiths are generally not good battle mages early on. Also, Ulm is limited to 3 Black Order Soldiers per turn, and that means the Black Duke is not out searching for death magic sites, forging items, or leading in battle. There is a price to pay to have the Black Duke sitting there producing 3 troops a turn, however tough.

I saw 20 Black order Soldiers dispose of Bogus and his heroes with few or no losses. I know they are tough. But most human opponents will take advantage of their weaknesses. Something the Ai may not be smart enough to do.

And they do have weaknesses. But I am grateful for the analysis, as that is extremely useful and much appreciated.
And it was because of that analysis that they are being produced at 3 rather than 4 per turn, and are easier to hit, move slower, and get tired more readily.

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

Im still going to play. I will still be playing Atlantis.

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

Once more into the breach, for England and Saint James!

I still want to try my poet (T'ien Ch'i).

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

And I'm still going to try using my Obsidian Statue, even though he seems quite malnourished compared to everyone else... hint hint ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

Endoperez designed the Obsidian medium. I helped on his descr and added a research bonus of 5, but i would not tinker with him without endoperez' permission.

He loves his hero though, and if you feel he is squishy, he would be the one to speak to. He is very cautious about overpowering heroes, so i doubt he will add anything to the hero for agartha.

Re: I so love flogging a dead horse
 

I think I am going to try Abysia. The Black Phoenix is one of my favorites Heroes. But, believe it or not, it is a race i have never played. Most of my dom II battles were against a good friend of mine that always played Abysia or Ermor, and I was not permitted to play "his" races.

I have no clue what pretender i will use. i am sort of experimenting now.

Re: Game has been restarted
 

Uploaded new pretender for C'tis.