Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I really enjoy it. The most interesting thing to me is the understandable dichotomy in what he says between his frustration in the way things are/aren't being done by the Americans and the fact that Saddam's regime is gone.

I liked one quote of his:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That puts a spin on things that is sometimes easy to forget. All of the people involved are just that, people. People who are going through a broad range of emotions. Iraqi civilians who are happy that Saddam is gone, but want their old lives back. American soldiers who are glad that they succeeded in their mission, but who really want to go home, tired of being away from friends and family for so long. Lots of other people with different agendas all trying to put their mark on the future, for good or ill, or just trying to survive. It is going to be a long time before we really begin to understand the ramifications of what has happened over the Last few months.

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

I like this one. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's a fresh perspective.

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh, heh. That's sort of what's happening in Brazil right now.

I have some advice for the Americans here (take it from someone who has already been there) : if you must choose between two candidates and you hate both of them, you must still choose one. You should choose between a terrible candidate and a worse one, in the hope that next time around you can choose between a terrible candidate and one who is merely bad, and so on until somewhere down the road there will be someone you can vote for and not feel ashamed.

Aloofi : I don't recall Bush's comment on blacks. I do remember Reagan's comment, as soon as he got off the plane that brought him to Brazil : "It's nice to be here in Bolivia." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

Suicide Junkie said:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe, you mean that maybe they should switch over to a "one party system" like we have here in Canada? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I've ceased referencing our political system as a democracy, more of a dictocracy in my opinion (that is to say, we elect our absolut dictator every 4 years).

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is very easy to take an out of context quote and make anyone sound stupid. At least Bush doesn't claim to have created the Internet.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The whole paragraph is...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So its clear from context (i.e. the next senctence where he continues to use the word initiative but now you can see that he means initiative in the sense of introducing legislation) that he means that he took the initiave in introducing *legislation* and *funding* for helping to build (i.e. another sense of the word *create*) the internet and did not claim to have invented the internet single handedly which is what the quote taken out of context implies. Admittedly I do not know if he did introduce such legislation and/or take an important roll in moving it forward, but I am willing to bet that he did.

Thanks for including the reference to the whole quote. Its quite easy to discuss these things that way. The "story" of the 2000 elections was that Gore was a liar and a bore and Bush was stupid. Niether are true. I actually think that Gore being a bore cost him more votes than the liar thing and anyone can tell you that stupidity is not a factor in American politics so I don't think that cost Bush any votes at all.

Cheers!

Teal

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

You have the party line down pretty straight as well Teal. It's just as obvious you do like Gore and so don't hesitate to excuse or attempt to explain away his inconsistancies. Personally I don't care enough about him to continue this topic. I was merely trying to provide some facts to the discussion since very few on either side of the issue when it came up every even heard or read what he actually said. They were merely parroting one or the other camps spin, as you have pretty faithfully done here.

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

I didn't vote in 2000, but if I had, my vote would have been for Al Gore.
I don't think Al Gore would have given that priority to the interests of the Oil Oligarchy in his agenda.......
And I would have done ANYTHING to have Dick Cheney out of the WhiteHouse.

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

Although I do need to say one thing about your analogy. I am someone who has been more than a little responsible for encouraging the popularity of Space Empires IV, the "Space Empires Phenomenon" as you so eloquenly put it, through my work with PBW. I believe I have a right to feel some pride in my accomplishments. However if I were to sit down with a reporter and state unequivically "During my service with PBW, I took the initiative in creating Space Empires." people would have every right to take me to task for it.

Geoschmo

Re: [OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point of fact I don't like Gore much at all (think he is much preferable to Bush yes, like him no). I am just willing to provide him the benefit of the doubt just as I am willing to provide Bush the benefit of the doubt when his numerous so called verbal gaffes get circled around the office. In those cases I am much less willing to do hard work to try and defend him true, but there are others who will do that. I content myself with not joining on the bandwagon.

Calling my point of view "the party line" I find somewhat offensive. It should be everyone's "party line" that until given overwhelming evidence to the contrary (of the "I hold in my hand the names of X communists at the state department" or "I have not had sexual relations with that woman" variety) that a willfull deception has indeed occured it is always the default position that someone was being smeared for political gain by their enemies. To rephrase that somewhat awkward sentence: the burden of proof that a politician is lying lays squarely at the feet of the accuser and it should be a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard of proof otherwise one should believe the person being accused. The case against Gore wouldn't even be admitted to court, much less achieve the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. To be fair the case that Bush is stupid is equally dumb.